Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 1 How to make everyone happy
02-27-2013, 08:32 AM
Or at least piss off the least amount of people with a PvP rep system.

Mod note: Please don't merge this with that other rep system thread, that thread should honestly be locked because the OP just came in and said why he hates PvP and didn't want to have to do it, which would probably get locked pdq if I went to the fed forum and said why I hate playing fed and didn't want to be forced to do it.


I'd like a parallel to the Rom system in that the best way to get Rom marks is to chase bunnies every day. You can grind shooting missions at a slower pace. This means that if you despise PvE missions that feel ported from a fantasy rpg tutorial mission, you can still make NPCs explode for a somewhat reduced flow of Rom marks.

So I hope that a PvP rep system would allow something like the winter ice race (or even better, a space equivalent) to give players a small source of PvP marks while leaving full on space and ground PvP as the way to substantial PvP marks. Now, I personally hated the ice race, I couldn't even bring myself to do it enough to get the Chel Grett, but I think it would accommodate those who can't see the compliment inherent in being focus fired.

You could take an example from the Omega rep too. A PvP rep equivalent of the BNPs could drop only from other players.

The thing nobody is really mentioning, unless I missed it, is the implications of PvP rep rewards being obtainable from private matches. If they are, I don't think life will be altered greatly because people who hate PvP will just farm a private match. This is a sticky issue because Cryptic clearly doesn't want people grinding things too fast, but leaving it as an option gives people a place to go who would otherwise AFK in public matches. Disabling private matches would be horrendous in the eyes of many because it's used for actual decent fights as well as testing game mechanics. Disabling any rewards would also be a bummer for intra-fleet PvP, and would push farmers to AFK public matches.

So, if you could get PvP marks from a race or private matches you would have an alternative to the public queues which many find so awful, but if you had a BNP equivalent that only dropped in public queues from player kills you could motivate people to actually play.

My argument against this is that it would increase the power of premades who would be grinding pugs for Pug Neural Processors. IDK, hopefully a PvP rep system would increase the number of premades so that separate queues could be viable. Premade queues could be further rewarded, with a public queue premade 3-win daily being the equivalent of an elder eppoh and a premade 3 matches played daily being, IDK, a moppet or something.

There's holes in the plan for sure, but the basic idea is to allow some form of advancement, leave private matches functional, and still incentivise honest, competitive PvP.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,427
# 2
02-27-2013, 10:32 AM
i have a feeling the pvp dailies have the fleet marks, and not the wrappers, because the wrappers are going to be giveing the pvp marks.


and if private ques get exploited, so what. like they came to realize with omega marks, you can only level so fast. the projects have to run daily, thats the time limiting factor. that seems to be why they changed it so we could open out box sooner. even with the flood of marks we can only rank up so fast
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 3
02-27-2013, 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redricky View Post
My argument against this is that it would increase the power of premades who would be grinding pugs for Pug Neural Processors.

There was a lot of good thought in your post, some I agree with some I'm not fully decided on.

This statement stood out at me though.


What is your definition of a premade?


I think, mechanically, this would actually affect "PUGmades" as well.


In effect, restricting "premades" would need to basically separate anyone and everyone who que's up pre-teamed with someone else.

Why?

Well, how does the game know you are a premade? Do you all have the same fleet tag?

What if you're all on vent/ts but not actually in the same fleet?

What if you just x up in OPvP and end up on a team and then hit the ques? You'll need to be separated as well at that point, because you are a premade team.



How do you see the details of this issue?

Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 677
# 4
02-27-2013, 10:38 AM
Moar QQn

/10char
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 5
02-27-2013, 11:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
There was a lot of good thought in your post, some I agree with some I'm not fully decided on.

This statement stood out at me though.


What is your definition of a premade?


I think, mechanically, this would actually affect "PUGmades" as well.


In effect, restricting "premades" would need to basically separate anyone and everyone who que's up pre-teamed with someone else.

Why?

Well, how does the game know you are a premade? Do you all have the same fleet tag?

What if you're all on vent/ts but not actually in the same fleet?

What if you just x up in OPvP and end up on a team and then hit the ques? You'll need to be separated as well at that point, because you are a premade team.



How do you see the details of this issue?
Honestly I don't know for sure. The finer points of a premade v. pugmade are probably lost on most of the player base, but I'm advocating two separate queues: one that's just like what we have now, and another that only accepts teams. Nothing to stop a team from queuing publicly in the general one, but the other that's restricted to 5 man teams and has higher rewards. Banning teamwork in the general queue wasn't what I was going for, rather have a high-reward option for teams. So you can play in private matches against fleetmates and earn some marks, even join the regular queue to try out whoever you end up with, be it pug or premade, then work up the nerve to queue up for the public team fights. I don't think there should be a block on an OPVP pugmade joining it or restrictions on players being from the same fleet or anything. Just better rewards, and honestly I think the winners should get more. Instead of trying to prevent premades or pugmades from facing pugs I'd rather make playing other teams become more attractive. Carrot, not stick.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,668
# 6
02-27-2013, 12:20 PM
How about we use OrganizedPvP to organize pugmades instead of just doing idle banter?

That would solve most of the complaints about 'ugh premades.'

If people don't want to team up after that, then they need to find a singleplayer game to their liking.


Click here and here if you are interested in learning more about PvP.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 663
# 7
02-27-2013, 12:41 PM
The only thing which will make me happy is this game reverted back to 1.2!
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 959
# 8
02-27-2013, 01:18 PM
Restrict the number of marks you can get per day, as with dilithium, and it won't matter how you get them.
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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,537
# 9
02-27-2013, 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoge00f View Post
If people don't want to team up after that, then they need to find a singleplayer game to their liking.
People that PUG...do team up. They're not looking for a single-player game. Just because they do not want to do a prefab team doesn't mean they're looking for a single-player game.

You won't find the challenge in a PUGmade or Premade that you do rolling in a PUG. You never know what your team will have - you never know what the enemy team will have. You have to take the pieces you have to try to make them work the best against an enemy that is doing the same.

Have you never been down to the local park or gym and had a pick up game of basketball? Just a bunch of guys getting together and having a blast...might meet new friends, etc, etc, etc.

If folks are just running around in closed cliques...well, perhaps they should go find a co-op game instead of a MMO...
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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,424
# 10
02-27-2013, 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
i have a feeling the pvp dailies have the fleet marks, and not the wrappers, because the wrappers are going to be giveing the pvp marks.


and if private ques get exploited, so what. like they came to realize with omega marks, you can only level so fast. the projects have to run daily, thats the time limiting factor. that seems to be why they changed it so we could open out box sooner. even with the flood of marks we can only rank up so fast
If they do give the PVP "Marks" to the 3 matches per reward wrappers, they'd have to fix Shanty Town.. other wise that one will get SORELY abused and FARMED for them in the Cap & Hold variant of those Wrappers.
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