Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 585
# 11
02-26-2013, 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naz4 View Post
Isnt it known as scramble sensors??....lol

AKA: The Larry, Curly, Moe, and Shep Button.
If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,426
# 12
02-26-2013, 02:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naz4 View Post
Isnt it known as scramble sensors??....lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegrimcorsair View Post
AKA: The Larry, Curly, Moe, and Shep Button.
Hehe, no no that's the "I Dont' care who you target! EVERYONE'S AN ENEMY!! RARRARRAR!

What I'm referring to would be..

"Our healer's being targeted! Quick, Cruiser, Taunt that Escort!"
*Cruiser activates "Taunt" based skill.. Escort suddenly switches targets to the Tanky Cruiser*

Something like this could also be nifty with Feedback pulse.
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,488
# 13
02-26-2013, 02:55 PM
All they have to do to correct the class.

Is;

1) Return the power drain mechanics to there properly balanced and working ways. Escorts will all energy SHOULD require at least 1 EPS unit. (this change will make EPS transfer look godly... and give Nadion a true reason to exist.)

2) Take the toys given to everyone else that does Nadions Job AWAY... change the 2 piece proc on the borg toys... and change the Marion Doff.

3) Half the effect given by both Starship Warp Core Efficency... and the Warp core potential. (this again would make EPS looks like a good skills again)

4) The idea of making MW and RSF castable is a good one... if people are ignoring the healer give them the ability to use there self buffs on the team... this would likely get the other team to focus the healer after they cast em on someone... I like that mechanic. As far as Engi Fleet... yes it is the worst of the 3 options... perhaps now that the Human boffs leadership traits work, they could work a hull regen rate boost into it... I think that would bring it into line with the other 2.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,600
# 14
02-26-2013, 02:58 PM
Because Taunts, threat mechanics, the Trinity...is basically a really bad joke. It's one of the worst things ever introduced into gaming and has no place in PvP.

It's one thing for a "Tank" to position themselves - it's another for the "Tank" to make a comment about some mob's mother in a language it doesn't understand and that mob deciding to beat on the "Tank" while ignoring the "Healer" keeping the "Tank" alive and all the "DPS" guys that are actually killing the mob. It's beyond stupid.

I'm all for the Trinity...without the bogus artificial threat mechanics. Let that meatshield stand between the angry mobs and the guys in dresses....but it's just silly for that guy to talk about what a good laid their mother was and have them ignore the guys in dresses.

If Jerry doesn't want Tom to shoot at him for a bit...Jerry can Jam Tom. Jerry should be able to mandate that Tom shoot at somebody else nor should anybody else be able to mandate Tom shoot at them instead of Jerry...
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,601
# 15
02-26-2013, 03:20 PM
i would be happy if Cryptic would actually acknowledge that one class has become completely obsolete. Baby steps.

I know some people think of my comments on the subject as whining. But how can we talk about balance, or grand idea proposals, if the game that is in front of us, has lost 1 whole class?!?! Whatever you think of the trinity, but thats what the whole system was designed for. No big or small fix will do squad to balance, without addressing this basic issue.
Joined 06.10
PvP 2010-2011
PvP 2012-2013
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 16
02-26-2013, 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Because Taunts, threat mechanics, the Trinity...is basically a really bad joke. It's one of the worst things ever introduced into gaming and has no place in PvP.

It's one thing for a "Tank" to position themselves - it's another for the "Tank" to make a comment about some mob's mother in a language it doesn't understand and that mob deciding to beat on the "Tank" while ignoring the "Healer" keeping the "Tank" alive and all the "DPS" guys that are actually killing the mob. It's beyond stupid.

I'm all for the Trinity...without the bogus artificial threat mechanics. Let that meatshield stand between the angry mobs and the guys in dresses....but it's just silly for that guy to talk about what a good laid their mother was and have them ignore the guys in dresses.

If Jerry doesn't want Tom to shoot at him for a bit...Jerry can Jam Tom. Jerry should be able to mandate that Tom shoot at somebody else nor should anybody else be able to mandate Tom shoot at them instead of Jerry...

You might want to sit down, have a cupcake or something.


I think you're really taking the abstraction of a taunt way further than it needs to be taken.

It's just a mechanic to represent getting the enemy's attention, that's all.


I like the idea of said ability to reduce the target's offense in some way, either an ACC penalty or a DMG penalty, unless they actively target the ENG.

Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,600
# 17
02-26-2013, 04:27 PM
I couldn't even begin to guess how many Engineer threads there have been. With both of my mains being Engineers - back when I started, my first toon was an Engineer - there have been more than a few discussion on them...even before F2P, folks were discussing them.

I'll go with my standard - the only thing separating the three Careers in Space are the Five Innate Abilities. I could probably search for the terms "five innate" and find all sorts of posts on the matter.

But I'll repeat the gist of it again, anyway.

Look at the five abilities on Ground. Look at them in Space. That's what's wrong with Engineers.

Look at a Tac on Ground and in Space.
Look at a Sci on Ground and in Space.
Look at an Eng on Ground and in Space.

Tac's "big" difference? Security Escort vs. Go Down Fighting.

It's the closest to what it is, regardless of where it is with 4 of 5.

Sci...gives up a PBAoE Placate for SNB in Space? Really? Where did that come from? Why not a PBAoE Placate in Space as well? Nanoprobe on Ground - Photonic Fleet in Space? Hrmm...yeah...okay...3 of 5.

Eng though...Eng...sheesh, am I right? 2 of 5 come close. They give up a Barrier (can be found in the C-Store) for a power boost (can be found all over the place). They give up a Pet (can be found in various other locations) for drain resistance (can be found in the skill tree or in gear). They give up a Lance (can be found in various ships from the C-Store) for a broken heal that doesn't always repair disabled subsystems (can be addressed in multiple ways - and stop for a moment, consider how much healing and resistance you can get out of an AtS3 while waiting on that MW CD, eh?).

But wait, that's not really the gist of the issue - that's more of a personal thing, right?

It's that the Engineer is not really a "team friendly" Career in PvP. It's got some nifty additional survival abilities if you want to spend the points in Threat and be the Tank in PvE...but uh...PvP? Even the majority of the suggestions where folks want to "fix" the Engineer is really just a case of wanting to make them the Healer.

Step back though - take a look at the three Careers.

Look at the Ground abilities.

Tac: Self Offense (Buff), Offensive Support (Debuff), Offensive Support (Buff), Offensive Support (Pets), Offensive Support (Buff)
Sci: Offensive Support (Debuff), Self Defense (Placate), Defensive Support (Buff), Offensive Support (Debuff), Defensive Support (Buff)
Eng: Self Defense (Buff), Defensive Support (Object), Defensive/Offensive Support (Pet), Offense (Attack), Defensive Support (Buff)

Tac: 4x Offensive Support and 1x Self Offense
Sci: 2x Offensive Support, 2x Defensive Support, 1x Self Defense
Eng: 2x Defensive Support, 1x Defensive/Offensive Support, 1x Self Defense, 1x Offense

Get the gist there?

Tac has 4x Offensive Support and 1x Self Offense.
Sci has 2x Offensive/2x Defensive and 1x Self Defense
Eng basically has 2 Defense/2x Offensive and 1x Self Defense

Sci is Off/Def while Eng is Def/Off...while Tac is just Off.

A nice mix of Offense, Off/Def, and Def/Off... bazinga - a team, eh?

Let's move to Space.

Tac: Self Offense (Buff), Offensive Support (Debuff), Offensive Support (Buff), Self Offense (Buff), Offensive Support (Buff)
Sci: Offensive Support (Debuff), Offensive Support (Debuff), Defensive Support (Buff), Offensive Support (Pets), Defensive Support (Buff)
Eng: Self Defense (Buff), Self Defensive/Offensive (Buff), Self Defensive/Offensive (Buff), Self Defense (Heal), Defensive Support (Buff)

So we're looking at...

Tac has 3x Offensive Support and 2x Self Offense
Sci has 3x Offensive Support and 2x Defensive Support
Eng has...WTF happened to Eng? 1x Defensive Support and basically 4x Self Defense.

On Ground we had a nice mix - Tac Off, Sci Off/Def, and Eng Def/Off. We move into Space and suddenly the Engineer is a Tank? He or she is no longer the Def/Off guy, they're a Tank? WTF?

It's kind of funny when you look at Ground and see where the Taunt for a tank actually is... Tac. Whether in a Kit or on a Boff. Draw Aggro.

But somehow the Eng ended up the Space Tank? WTF?

If somebody wants to be the Space Tank, let them grab a tanky ship - put points in Space Threat - and grab a healer or two. There's no reason for a Career to be forced into that position because of ability selection.

Making EPS and MW "castable" on others doesn't fix the problem, either - imo.

Want to fix Engineers? Then look at Ground. Look at how both Tac and Sci basically kept their identity and let Engineers keep their identity.

Engineers should either be:
2x Defensive Support, 2x Offensive Support, 1x Self Defense
or
3x Defensive Support, 2x Offensive Support

Then you'll still have your:
Tac Offensve
Sci Off/Def
Eng Def/Off

Oh... a team.
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,600
# 18
02-26-2013, 04:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
You might want to sit down, have a cupcake or something.
Bah, all I've got is bread and pink grapefruit juice.

I really do despise artificial threat mechanics. Doesn't mean I haven't abused the Hell out of them in various games...but I do despise them.
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 337
# 19
02-26-2013, 09:12 PM
Prior to Season 3 and F2P, with all the skill changes and what not, Engineers used to be the best at their role as a tank and healer.

MW used to be castable on others and it was a 90% Hull heal, with skills and SIF consoles, and added a nice dmg resist to boot.

As others said, EPS was a lot more useful prior to the current skill system but as it stands, noone's really suffering from energy drain.

At some point, just before S3, I believe, Shield resists took a blanket 45% nerf across the board. This included RSF. Granted RSF made you near impenetrible at the time but I think with the current skill system, the Doff's and silly consoles, restoring RSF to its previous glory wouldn't be game-breaking. Especially when speed tanking is far more effective anyway.

Nadeon Inversion was never good.


This is all space-based of course.


As for ground, well, Engineers are a one-man demolition team. But who plays ground?

Last edited by doomicile; 02-26-2013 at 09:15 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,539
# 20
02-27-2013, 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by webdeath View Post
Lately how ever, with how shield damage and Shield Drain effects (and the newly introduced Disruptor Shield Resist Penalty) it's becoming harder and harder to keep your own shields up.
Sorry, this is off-topic, but what is the "Disruptor Shield Resist Penalty"? I thought the disruptor proc only affected hull. Did they change something?
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:26 AM.