Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,906
# 121
02-27-2013, 02:19 PM
Fifty years ago was a different world, kids that acted up would get the wailing of their lives, A high proportion of parents were WW2 and Korean war vets who weren't gonna put up with any BS in the streets, it was nothing like today where a parent can't even discipline their kids for fear of being brought up on charges. Sure you heard about problems now and then but nothing like today, I'm 53 and a punk going into a primary school and gunning down a bunch of kids would have been unheard of when I was a kid.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 152
# 122
02-27-2013, 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxvitor View Post
Fifty years ago was a different world, kids that acted up would get the wailing of their lives, A high proportion of parents were WW2 and Korean war vets who weren't gonna put up with any BS in the streets, it was nothing like today where a parent can't even discipline their kids for fear of being brought up on charges. Sure you heard about problems now and then but nothing like today, I'm 53 and a punk going into a primary school and gunning down a bunch of kids would have been unheard of when I was a kid.
Now see, I was thinking that when I replied to the post, but thought better of it. I didn't want to derail the thread into a "Thse daggone modern kids! Grrr! Grrr!" thing. Even though I can tell you when I was a kid they were allowed to spank you in school. (Forget that time out crap).

Heck, kids may be worse now than back then. So if Star Trek does become possible in the future Kirk will have 50 illegitimate kids and Worf will be a Gangsta Rapper. Picard might be a Pimp. Who knows?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,906
# 123
02-27-2013, 02:44 PM
Oh hell I can't remember the number of times I got the strap in school, but it did get the message across, pain is an excellent motivator for behavioral modification.

P.S. Kirk probably does have 50 Illegitimate Kids considering he'd go down on anything with a pulse.

Last edited by maxvitor; 02-27-2013 at 02:52 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 152
# 124
02-27-2013, 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxvitor View Post
Oh hell I can't remember the number of times I got the strap in school, but it did get the message across, pain is an excellent motivator for behavioral modification.
I remember my grandmother telling me to go outside and get a "switch" so she could tan my behind. Back in about 2000 I was in the commisary at EUCOM Patch Barracks in Stuttgart and I ran into a friend of mine. His daughter was about five I think. She was acting up, like young kids will do and he reached down and patted her on the butt saying "Behave!". I mean pat. It wasn't a hit or a swat. It was a gentle pat. The kid didn't cry, she just said "Ok, daddy".

The next day he tells me someone called Child Protective Services because they saw him beating his child in the Commisary. I couldn't believe it anymore than he could. Since I was there I had to give a statement about it, too. I mean, geez, I knew the guy...we worked together. He was a good guy. He didn't mistreat his kids, in fact all he talked about was how he loved having kids.

But this is a touchy subject, and best not continued here. It'll only get the thread closed when people get upset on any side of the argument.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,906
# 125
02-27-2013, 03:29 PM
That's part of the problem today with government interfering in child rearing without providing a backup plan while preventing parents from controlling their kids. But as you say this may not be the place for this.
Well it is Ten Forward so I'm not expecting problems.
Back on the subject I realize that Star Trek's moneyless economy sounds unrealistic, it does sound like communism but it's communism how it should be, not how it was perverted by our communists, there would be no working class providing and elite class reaping the benefits, everyone would be on the same level, it's hard to conceive of it living in the world we live in, we don't have the technology that would take care of the unpleasant drudgery without human involvement.
And it could be said that Star Trek's economy is a false one, humans living in luxury on a garden world while all of the backbreaking labor is handled off world in remote mining and manufacturing colonies. The society's dirty underside being hidden off world, but not eliminated.
There clearly would have to be some medium for barter and exchange, but imagine one where this currency represents only the value of goods and there is no 3rd party scrapping off the top accumulating wealth while producing nothing.
I know it's a dream but I can't say it would be bad living in a world where we are not indentured servants of the Rockefellers.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,265
# 126
02-27-2013, 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxvitor View Post
Back on the subject I realize that Star Trek's moneyless economy sounds unrealistic, it does sound like communism but it's communism how it should be, not how it was perverted by our communists, there would be no working class providing and elite class reaping the benefits, everyone would be on the same level, it's hard to conceive of it living in the world we live in, we don't have the technology that would take care of the unpleasant drudgery without human involvement.
And it could be said that Star Trek's economy is a false one, humans living in luxury on a garden world while all of the backbreaking labor is handled off world in remote mining and manufacturing colonies. The society's dirty underside being hidden off world, but not eliminated.
There clearly would have to be some medium for barter and exchange, but imagine one where this currency represents only the value of goods and there is no 3rd party scrapping off the top accumulating wealth while producing nothing.
I know it's a dream but I can't say it would be bad living in a world where we are not indentured servants of the Rockefellers.
I agree completely. Though someday we may have robots and AIs doing a lot of the dirty work.
"It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."
-- Q
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 152
# 127
02-27-2013, 04:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycoticvulcan View Post
I agree completely. Though someday we may have robots and AIs doing a lot of the dirty work.
Until the cylons....I mean, robots...revolt.

Don't forget the three laws of Robotics!

1. A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.

2. A robot must obey the orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.

3. A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.


(I gotta read "I, Robot" again. Loved it as a kid)
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,265
# 128
02-27-2013, 05:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captnurntumber View Post
Until the cylons....I mean, robots...revolt.

Don't forget the three laws of Robotics!

1. A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.

2. A robot must obey the orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.

3. A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.


(I gotta read "I, Robot" again. Loved it as a kid)
Gotta love the three laws.

I love the movie, but haven't read the book yet. I've heard they're very different; is that true?

I don't think we should make our robots and AIs too intelligent. Just enough to take out the trash, or fix the plumbing, or other menial jobs like that.
"It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."
-- Q
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,906
# 129
02-27-2013, 05:18 PM
Well the movie I' Robot did a good job of invalidating the 3 laws, for whatever else you think of the movie, that robots could hold us captive and still not violate the 3 laws kind of proves the laws need work.
Automation doesn't necessarily mean those kinds of robots, a fully automated waste processing or recycling plant would almost resemble something biological if the physical and chemical processes were sufficiently advanced. Don't really want to go into the gooey details for obvious reasons.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 152
# 130
02-27-2013, 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycoticvulcan View Post
Gotta love the three laws.

I love the movie, but haven't read the book yet. I've heard they're very different; is that true?

I don't think we should make our robots and AIs too intelligent. Just enough to take out the trash, or fix the plumbing, or other menial jobs like that.
The movie is nothing like the book. Its actually a collection of stories that are roughly connected. Its a good read, I will be bold enough to say I think you'll like it. (as I don't know you personally, I'm guessing you like sci-fi *go figure*...).

I was just joking about the cylon stuff. I've always had a thing for robots. But its probably because as a kid I grew up watching the original Astro Boy and Gigantor cartoons on TV.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmAaz3irJVQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlWaTAZUxUQ
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