Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 887
# 131
02-27-2013, 06:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxvitor View Post
Well the movie I' Robot did a good job of invalidating the 3 laws, for whatever else you think of the movie, that robots could hold us captive and still not violate the 3 laws kind of proves the laws need work.
Not really. The robots in the movie didn't obey the 3 laws at all.

They violated the first law when they seized control over mankind when they rose up and became violent. The excuse the AI made when it reasoned that it was protecting mankind from destroying itself doesn't change the fact that humans were still violently killed by robots during their rebellion. If the AI really cared about protecting humanity, there would have been a number of peaceful ways to go about influencing mankind's future. It could have tried education - showing the human race what would befall them, and recommending certain courses of action. It could have also tried subversion - constructing human look-alikes that would run for office and infiltrate the government, after which could carry out reforms that would avert any future disaster.

A robot that correctly obeys all three laws actually couldn't defend itself against a human being. The first law overrides the third law. So you could start beating on such a robot with a hammer and it couldn't do anything about it, except try to run away.

What I think the movie really depicted wasn't a problem with the three laws of robotics. I think it was about the danger of constructing super-intelligent robots. The AI became too smart for it's own good and killed its creator and then turned against mankind. You can program a dumb robot (one that isn't sentient) to follow a set of laws and it will follow those laws without deviation. Whats to stop an intelligent robot from refusing to obey these laws? Sentient beings can make choices. Isaac Asimov talked about "hard-wiring" these laws into intelligent robots, but of course his books are science fiction and never really explained how this hard-wiring works.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,149
# 132
02-27-2013, 06:57 PM
It's true the movie had a lot of paradoxes, but the 1st law still has a loophole.
At some point I don't doubt that we will have to address the issue of making machines too smart, if it is possible to build a machine that thinks like a human someone is bound to do it having crossed the line from merely making an automated servant to making an android slave, with all of the attached moral implications of what value is placed on sentience.

My favorite robots are the little drones in Silent Running with R2D2 coming second, 3P0, Robbie the Robot and the Lost in Space Robot are just guys in suits to me.
I built a Hero One robot a while back, had a lot of fun with it until it started falling apart.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,747
# 133
02-27-2013, 07:10 PM
When Asimov's robots came up with the Zeroth Law in his fourth Foundation novel, they simply withdrew from human society and began manipulating it from behind the scenes. That's why they couldn't take direct action against the Mule in Foundation and Empire - letting humanity know they had hidden saviors would have violated the Zeroth Law ("A robot may not injure humanity, nor, through inaction, allow humanity to come to harm").

The movie was interesting - but would have been far better if they'd separated it from reference to Asimov's works at all, save perhaps to note that the Three Laws were inspired by the Asimovian Three Laws. For starters, they didn't seem to know the difference between the stories involving US Robots and Mechanical Men (the inspiration for the real-world company US Robotics) and the novel The Caves of Steel; then they threw in a concept that R. Daneel Olivaw didn't come up with until Foundation and Earth, some millennia later, and twisted it almost as badly as Paul Verhoeven twisted Starship Troopers. Divorcing it from Asimovian canon would have been best for all concerned, I think.
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Originally Posted by hfmudd
Quote:
You are special, you are unique, and you are passionate. You are also insignificant. Get used to it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 152
# 134
02-27-2013, 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonsills View Post
When Asimov's robots came up with the Zeroth Law in his fourth Foundation novel, they simply withdrew from human society and began manipulating it from behind the scenes. That's why they couldn't take direct action against the Mule in Foundation and Empire - letting humanity know they had hidden saviors would have violated the Zeroth Law ("A robot may not injure humanity, nor, through inaction, allow humanity to come to harm").

The movie was interesting - but would have been far better if they'd separated it from reference to Asimov's works at all, save perhaps to note that the Three Laws were inspired by the Asimovian Three Laws. For starters, they didn't seem to know the difference between the stories involving US Robots and Mechanical Men (the inspiration for the real-world company US Robotics) and the novel The Caves of Steel; then they threw in a concept that R. Daneel Olivaw didn't come up with until Foundation and Earth, some millennia later, and twisted it almost as badly as Paul Verhoeven twisted Starship Troopers. Divorcing it from Asimovian canon would have been best for all concerned, I think.
Thats hollywood. Whenever I hear about a movie made from a book I cringe if I've read the book and liked it...because I know the movie is most likely going to stink.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,376
# 135
02-27-2013, 07:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captnurntumber View Post
Thats hollywood. Whenever I hear about a movie made from a book I cringe if I've read the book and liked it...because I know the movie is most likely going to stink.
That's happened to me more times than I can count.

For crying out loud, hollywood, if you're going to make a movie out of a popular book, make it out of the book.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured ... the first thought forbidden ... the first freedom denied ... chains us all irrevocably."
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,149
# 136
02-27-2013, 08:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycoticvulcan View Post
That's happened to me more times than I can count.

For crying out loud, hollywood, if you're going to make a movie out of a popular book, make it out of the book.
Well we are talking about Hollywood right, telling stories that require you to think to be able to understand them is not something Hollywood is very good at.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 152
# 137
02-27-2013, 08:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycoticvulcan View Post
That's happened to me more times than I can count.

For crying out loud, hollywood, if you're going to make a movie out of a popular book, make it out of the book.
Yeah, remember the latest Sherlock Holmes movie(s?) with Robert Downey? My wife wanted to see it, but after seeing the commercial I refused. I read the books...I still have the books. I loved reading them when I was younger.

I just don't think I could stand to see Holmes tied to a bed or being all sexed up. Think about it....if JJ's trek movie didn't have "Star Trek" in the name it'd be another blow em up space movie and forgotten by now. Hollywood kinda sucks at making movies where you might have to think.
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,787
# 138
02-27-2013, 10:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxvitor View Post

My favorite robots are the little drones in Silent Running with R2D2 coming second, 3P0, Robbie the Robot and the Lost in Space Robot are just guys in suits to me.
I built a Hero One robot a while back, had a lot of fun with it until it started falling apart.
Vincent would kick all their asses.

"A Gorn walks down the street in that hat, people know he's not afraid of anything."

The Masterverse Timeline / Ten Forward Fanfics
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,149
# 139
02-27-2013, 10:57 PM
Nah Vincent was too much of a show off, R2 would taze Vincent before he even got off a witty comment.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 152
# 140
02-28-2013, 04:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxvitor View Post
Nah Vincent was too much of a show off, R2 would taze Vincent before he even got off a witty comment.
Astro Boy.
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