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Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 381
Taken from http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=545261

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkollins View Post
08. Level Design: Running Virus in Shanty Town
Issue: The virus in shanty town is like the flag in capture the flag games, yet most people don't even notice whats going on there because the virus can be moved while under perfect cloak (covert trait + stealth module) and can be captured while under cloak (omega cloak+covert trait).. thus the virus carrier is never ever showing up on the minimap, the base turrets will never see anything either, making this totally unintuitive and hard to handle
A few people making a lot of noise complaining about this issue.

Some claims who are often depicted with this issue.

1st claim:
Cloaked Virus carriers are totally invisible.

False!
They are visible! You just need to know what to watch out for. They don't show up on the minimap. Well, just like cloaked operatives normally do as well. Just take a glimpse from time to time on the minimap! On a round 4vs4 it is obvious instantly, if there a colored dot from the enemy team is missing!

So it is all about the laziness of some people to keep an eye on the minimap, and run back to defend the own main console if necessary!

In fact it is one of the most funny aspects of Shanty Town, to hunt down those cloaked Virus Uploaders. It is fun to search for this cloakd Virus Uploader with his pale gleam. It is fun to follow them cloaked and attack them, or wait till they decloakd for uploading. It is fun to follow them along loop ways. It is fun to hunt them down with Sensor Scan, Exothermic Induction Field or Snipe. In fact you don't even have to run back to your console to stop him from uploading. There are enogh weapons and abilities to prevent the Upload!

It is all about to watch out for this pale gleam!


2nd claim
You can't kill a cloaked Virus Uploader due to his perfect cloak or prevent the Upload of the Virus

False!
This is a problem of Covert & Stealth, not about Virus! Furthermore it only affects Caitians and Ferasans with adequate Skilltree and Traits!
There are more than enough tactics to prevent cloaked Virus Uploaders from accomplishing. Every profession can hunt down an Operative and prevent him from Uploading! For example:
Engineers can use mortars, turrets, mines and bombs near the console. Airstrike as well. Scis can use Sensor Scan. Furthermore Hyperionic Radiation and Exothermic Induction Field from great distance, which prevents the Upload for quite a long time. Operatives can follow the cloakd Virus uploader, all the time, while they are cloaked themselves.
And don't forget to snipe from great distance!

In my opinion this is only a problem because of the laziness of some people, and people complaining about exploits whenever there is a tactic or something else available which does not contribute to their tactics and abilities and their own control over the events on the round.

What else should have been the intention to implement the Stealth Module, if not to use it for something like this for example. Similiar with all the nagging cows complaining about the "Cloakers" in general, who Buff and Decloak to attack someone from behind.
Maybe you better take out Cloak and Stealth entirely from the game....
Take it out (or make the cloak nonoperative while carrying the virus) and give thus a push to more boredom on Shanty Town. Deteriorate Assault PvP to nothing else than Sniping and using Pulsewave accross the bridge and down the alley.

And if you do so. Don't forget to nerf the Engineers with their Weapon Malfunction Kit as well. With this Kit and fully trained most people fail to stop such a player from loading up the virus at the minor console in the alley. They just stand upon the console, summon a covershield, lay mines and bomb and start the upload. Therefore you have to jump upon the covershield or behind it and then you get within the range of these mines and bombs, and maybe airstrikes. Most players die while trying. Any better than the virus issue i have depicted above!

Last edited by zeratk; 02-27-2013 at 02:31 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 744
# 2
02-27-2013, 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeratk View Post
On a round 4vs4 it is obvious instantly, if there a colored dot from the enemy team is missing!

So it is all about the laziness of some people to keep an eye on the minimap, and run back to defend the own main console if necessary!

And if you do so. Don't forget to nerf the Engineers with their Weapon Malfunction Kit as well. With this Kit and fully trained most people fail to stop such a player from loading up the virus at the minor console in the alley. They just stand upon the console, summon a covershield, lay mines and bomb and start the upload. Therefore you have to jump upon the covershield or behind it and then you get within the range of these mines and bombs, and maybe airstrikes. Most players die while trying. Any better than the virus issue i have depicted above!
Just because a dot isn't on the map doesn't mean a person is running the virus. For all you know, they could be waiting for someone to run off to the mainframe so they can one-shot shotgun our intrepid virus defender.

And even if one person does run off to stop the virus, if they're not up to the task, and the rest of the team stays on the bridge, what are you supposed to do? I've been in matches where I was the only one trying to stop the virus, and was typing in team chat constantly, but no one else did anything. I got teamed up on at the defense point, and that was that (and that wasn't even with a cloaker running the virus).

Engineers have two kits with weapons malfunction: Enemy Neutralization (the one with bombs you're talking about) and Equipment Technician (the one with heals as well). If Tacs can cloak and run the virus, I don't see any problem with Engineers using their own kits to help them run the virus.
Join Date: July 29 2008
Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 60
# 3
02-27-2013, 06:59 PM
Well let me add a little more info into this. Here is whats actually happening with a covert cloaked virus runner. While he is under regular stealth module he is completely invisible. He then activates his distortion field and quickly decloaks and starts uploading the virus. Now the next part is the part that can solve this problem without them doing any work to covert or stealth values.

A player with covert gets plus 456 stealth on distortion feild assuming he has no dominion tribble up. In actual tests plus 456 stealth makes a player invisible without any perception debuffs on him up to 15 meters. Any closer and that player can be seen without any perception buffs by the opposing player. It still is weird cause there is a light phaser turret maybe 3 meters away that should actually see the distortion fielded player right then and there. My guess is the aggro reaction time on these turrets sucks.

Now here's the simple fix Give the turrets an overpowered inate perception value. I would say plus 75 should be enough.
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,227
# 4
02-27-2013, 07:12 PM
Can you imagine a game that had a Capture The Flag map where the Flag Runner was allowed to be completely invisible with no max duration?

I can't. So I removed it from STO today.

Players in possession of the Virus on Shanty Town will find themselves unable to activate Stealth abilities until they get rid of the Virus. Or die.

I'm hoping this change makes it to Tribble this week.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Systems Design
"Play smart!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me
Kurland here...
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 993
# 5
02-27-2013, 07:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Can you imagine a game that had a Capture The Flag map where the Flag Runner was allowed to be completely invisible with no max duration?

I can't. So I removed it from STO today.

Players in possession of the Virus on Shanty Town will find themselves unable to activate Stealth abilities until they get rid of the Virus. Or die.

I'm hoping this change makes it to Tribble this week.

This is like the best Month ever for Ground PvP


Thanks for another great fix!
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 60
# 6
02-27-2013, 07:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Can you imagine a game that had a Capture The Flag map where the Flag Runner was allowed to be completely invisible with no max duration?

I can't. So I removed it from STO today.

Players in possession of the Virus on Shanty Town will find themselves unable to activate Stealth abilities until they get rid of the Virus. Or die.

I'm hoping this change makes it to Tribble this week.
Just to be clear that means stealth module. distortion field, and portable shroud generator even though those are worthless anyway. But again thanks and to NICK all I can say to you now is LOL what are you gonna do now?

Another quick but major fix 2 in one day. Major progress!

Last edited by futurecaptain; 02-27-2013 at 07:24 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 201
# 7
02-27-2013, 09:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Can you imagine a game that had a Capture The Flag map where the Flag Runner was allowed to be completely invisible with no max duration?

I can't. So I removed it from STO today.

Players in possession of the Virus on Shanty Town will find themselves unable to activate Stealth abilities until they get rid of the Virus. Or die.

I'm hoping this change makes it to Tribble this week.
Awesome news
Hope you find time to address the other ground concerns as well.
___
Tami, Leader of -FS-
Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 275
# 8 o.o
02-27-2013, 09:19 PM
Catians can climb the walls and run the virus around the borders of the map and climb back in at certain points. The boundries of the map are flawed. Also, the map is abused. Players intentionally run out the 50 kill count opposed to running the virus. How about removing the kill count and simply placing a timer on the map. Whoever score the most virus points in the alloted time or depletes their points wins.
Please give my thread on new pvp modes a look.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...31#post8347431

Last edited by akurie666; 02-28-2013 at 01:51 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,119
# 9
02-27-2013, 09:19 PM
Now if only he could fix that damned thing about the JHAS hangar pet which all those people are complaining about. It wouldn't affect me but I would like to see that happen just so those people would stop complaining about it. Also that boundary thing needs fixing. I also have to admit that he's probably not responsible or able to fix the hangar thing.

Last edited by westx211; 02-27-2013 at 09:24 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 460
# 10
02-27-2013, 10:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by akurie666 View Post
Also, the map is abused. Players intentionally run out the 50 kill count opposed to running the virus.
That's not abusing the map, it's PvPing. Ya know, what the map is actually designed for.

Anyways, thanks again Borticus. You're restoring my faith and my sanity.
Joined: January 2010

Fanfiction! ZOMG! Read it now!
kate-wintersbite.deviantart.com/art/0x01-Treachery-293641403
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