Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 21
# 11
02-26-2013, 09:22 AM
Aye, I can only repeat the afore mentioned: it all comes to personal play style.
While I like the fast and nimble escorts with their huge damage output,
I love herding and holding enemies in pve (probes for example) with repulsors, grav well, tractor beam - add polaron weaponry and energy siphon and throw a subsystem disable in.

I tried the mirror carrier on my klingon sci yesterday a bit more. while it is a flying bunker nearly everyone can
circlestrafe me.

the only "healing" abilities I have atm are hazard emitters 3 (heals a lot with high aux), extend shields and transfer shield strenght.

I will get me some advice for pvp later the day, you may see me asking dumb questions in opvp channel.

PS: hit that emergency speed boost (what was its name?), repulsors and you can push ppl not careful enough half across the map

PPS: just an idea: why not give some bonus traits if you are a sci in a sci ship (or tac in escort, eng in cruiser)
since we wont get any penalty for using a ship of the "wrong" profession.
of course on the other hand when sci abilities get a lil bit too strong again the qq on the forums can be heard on beteigeuze too
.o0( The gods of deutsch data recovery have prevailed! The techno will continue. )

Last edited by imarookie; 02-26-2013 at 09:31 AM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 32
# 12
02-27-2013, 02:00 PM
Uh, before I continue can I address one thing? Although I may sometimes feel useless in Khitomer Vortex it has more to do with a) the team not communicating or b) the teams expectations to be disproportionate. What I mean by that is, that for some reason recently in PuGs people have gotten it into their heads that one person should guard the Portal from both waves of Probes-which is why I mentioned not being able to kill them quickly (or maybe I was just being overly honest...). Speaking with both the people I have started to do premades with and a very talented Escort pilot both say it shouldn't be done that way, is unnecessarily difficult, is not fun and increases the risk of failure. I could easily fend off one wave of Probes if someone else got the other side and people did that STF right. In all the premades I've done, even on the KDF side where I have a Tactical Captain and I'm the one with the pure firepower there have always been two guards at the Portal. Then again, I do premades now so people expecting too much or too little of me in PuGs isn't going to bother me much anymore.

Also, no I don't want Gravity Well to be buffed. Nor do I want it nerfed. I just said it would be appreciated if it was buffed. I'm not going to start a thread demanding it be buffed just because I happen to use it a lot.

Now, to the rest of it. I've heard that the Carriers are better at dealing damage but if Cruisers annoy me now with their turn rates then Carriers are just going to do the same and more XD. But then I don't have a Carrier. Might pick one up at some point though, just out of curiousity. I hear the Recluse is pretty good. But I'm sure I'll probably end up going back to my Mirror Reconnaissance Science Vessel.

I also am loving the tips from my fellow Science Captains. I didn't know that Repulsors caused shield ignoring damage though! That opens up a lot more ideas. One of my favourite things to do is to fire a Tachyon Beam at someone, throw a Grav Well at them and then catch them in a Borg, or normal, Tractor Beam whitst they're trying to escape and then watch them fall back into it heh.

Also that boost is Evasive Manouvres I think, speed and turn boost. I'm starting to realise how useful it is.

So, it seems that sci/sci is fine if you learn it right then. There is nothing wrong with it and not every person in a sci ship is automatically useless if they're not in a Vesta or Carrier. Good to know. Now if only we could get Cryptic to unnerf the Sci abilities...

I like the idea of a boost per the poster above me though! Say Sci Captains get a small boost to their Sci specific abilities and Boff skills for pairing up with the 'right' ship, and the same for Engineers and Tacticals. That'd be interesting-and the 'wrong' Captain couldn't abuse it either.

Oh yeah before I go again, I tried my main ship in PvP earlier. It really does shine in a team setting and isn't nearly as weak and toothless as half the stuff on here was starting to make me think. In fact I got six kills and no deaths (and it was 2-vs-2). My partner in his Escort (Tactical Kumari) also got 15 kills no deaths-because we were working together.
I am NEVER calling my avatars 'toons'.

Quote:
Some people buy Tier V ships and expect to automatically win. Other people buy Tier V ships and are Tier V pilots

Last edited by ladydragonfury; 02-27-2013 at 02:08 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
# 13
02-27-2013, 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladydragonfury View Post
... What's wrong with a Science Captain in a Science Vessel? ... But still, I don't get it. What's wrong with a Science Captain in a Science Vessel?
Thats because you never experienced science abilities before they were nerfed to hell, never to return.

Science abilities used to be very potent debuffers. Drain attacks would and did literally disable ships if you had the right build for it; aoe snares and damage ability did use to hold targets and/or suck them in unless they used polarize hull or evasive maneuvers...otherwise they'd be held until Gwell was over.

Then the stats the sci abilities were based upon got majorly nerfed. They stopped providing the same bonuses as before. I think right now they are set at 20% of what they used to be.

Then ships were given insane resists against sci abilities. Power insulators for example, just 2 points in that skill box completely negates 9 points in flow capacitors+3 flow cap consoles worth. Gravity well was turned into kinetic damage so ships suddenly received massive resists vs its damage and the tractor pull/hold effect was lowered to 5% of previous level. Now even an stf probe can just walk out of it no prob and not be seriously hurt.

AUX used to determine not only sci abilities but also a ship's turn rate.

Viral matrix used to REALLY shut a ship down if it wasn't cleansed fast enough.

basically every single science ability has been lowered in potency by 80% except for the abilities escorts use: ensign and lt level ones. Tractor, repulsors, hazard and sci team.


Whats wrong with sci ships today? Nothing. The stats sci abilities are based on however, are what is wrong.

You are better off today in a cruiser or escort or carrier than in a science ship. The game is no longer about roles but about dps. crowd control and debuffing does not translate into dps. especially if teh debuffing part is at 20% setting.
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Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 75
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,223
# 15
02-27-2013, 06:09 PM
Some of the science powers need to be way more crippling. The problem with science is that the actual cool science stuff like Gravity Well doesn't make people fearful. It's just a graphic effect with no oomph. So what's the point? Where's their edge?

Okay, I can't have death ray cannons or uber torpedo spreads. But if I open up a flippin' rift in space every 45 seconds it should actually be a big deal. Science would be fine if their big powers were actually big powers. If science is the closest in video game terms to a Wizard class in Star Trek, then give me big bad wizard spells to work with. There is a lot of missed opportunity for fun and goofy Lt. Commander and Commander powers here that would be great to see science captains busting out.
--------------------------------------

"We are smart." - Grebnedlog

Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom

Last edited by tsurutafan01; 02-27-2013 at 06:17 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
# 16
02-27-2013, 06:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidfloresii View Post
You're not doing any science there. The ship's consoles are not science. Science is boff abilities mainly. All you did was fly in there with heavy weapons and click on a multitude of pay to win consoles.

I did not see you use drains, grav wells, disables, sensor attacks nor any form of crowd control ability that comes out of boff abilities. Hazard and heals ... yes... and low tier ones too. Thanks for proving my point about sci being nothing but lt level heal abilities for escorts... for you flew that ship exactly like one.
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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,086
# 17
02-27-2013, 06:37 PM
For PvP they are fine.

In PvE the goal is to destroy the enemy. Not to play with them, destroy them. Escorts rule that area and carriers give them a run for their money.

Now when an ability allows you to destroy the enemy faster (gravity well for example) it is nice but then their is the opportunity cost involved not to mention the best ability for that purpose is attack pattern beta.

And it comes down to do you care about optimum or acceptable. Any ship in this game is acceptable, the vast majority of PvE content can be conquered by shuttles for crying out loud.
STO's F2P is basically an inferior experience for the masses at no cost being subsidized by a handful of whales seeking whatever it is that motivates them to spend hundreds if not thousands on a game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 227
# 18
02-28-2013, 01:47 PM
Science Captain + Vesta + Emergency Power to Aux + Cannon Scatter Volley = Win

Honestly, if you are a science captain then you need a Vesta class, the thing is an epic beast. Claim and dismiss it a few times to get 3 of the AUX cannons up front, run max AUX power and with a good build you can absolutely decimate anything.

I run mine with the 3 AUX cannons up front, 2 turrets and a transphasic mine launcher rear and the thing does amazing DPS while still having great survivability, plus with max AUX power you get more bang out of your science powers.

Last edited by dashuk2381; 02-28-2013 at 01:49 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 298
# 19
02-28-2013, 01:58 PM
I'm perfectly fine with actual science ships. I've got one sci captain using the Sci Vesta, one sci captain using the fleet RSV, and one sci captain using the D'Kyr. I rather like them as they are. Good DPS, good sci abilities, and wicked high shield strength.

To each his own I suppose, but I have no problems with it.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,086
# 20
02-28-2013, 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dashuk2381 View Post
Science Captain + Vesta + Emergency Power to Aux + Cannon Scatter Volley = Win

Honestly, if you are a science captain then you need a Vesta class, the thing is an epic beast. Claim and dismiss it a few times to get 3 of the AUX cannons up front, run max AUX power and with a good build you can absolutely decimate anything.

I run mine with the 3 AUX cannons up front, 2 turrets and a transphasic mine launcher rear and the thing does amazing DPS while still having great survivability, plus with max AUX power you get more bang out of your science powers.
I consider the Vesta a warship not a science vessel. Just like the Chet Grell(sp?) is a warship not a cruiser same with the Fleet Vor'Cha and many other ships.

Claiming Sci Vessels are fine because one has more in common with an escort than a science vessel just highlights the issue perfectly if you ask me.
STO's F2P is basically an inferior experience for the masses at no cost being subsidized by a handful of whales seeking whatever it is that motivates them to spend hundreds if not thousands on a game.
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