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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 21
02-27-2013, 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
It doesn't cost you that many slots... one dem 3 commander... one lt slot for aux to bat 1... the rest can be extends... Engi Team 3 (at global as well) and EPTS 3 (also at global).
You cannot maintain all other powers at global with 1 copy of Aux to batts. This goes especially for the powers on shorter cooldowns (because you have less casts of 1 copy of Aux to batts during CD)

You can either have burst recharge (1 copy) but see-saw performance or everything at global (2 copies) for consistent performance.

Again, that leaves you with 1 free upper tier eng slot. You have 2 Ensigns to fill, so if you take ET 3 it needs to be 2 different EPTX but that means no EPTS 3.

EPTS > Aux to batts (required for GCD) > RSP 2/3 <> DEM 2/3
EPTX > Aux to batts (required for GCD)

Those are your options on a Ltc Tac cruiser.


Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
My only point is if a team is going to field a cruiser at all... there is no way it needs to be engi.
That's not due to the DEM doff, its a much larger issue - one that encompasses lockbox ships like the Recluse and Wells as well as what an Eng brings vs. what a Sci brings.


Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
What could engi do better ?
Survive under focus fire?

2x Aux to batts means no Aux to SIF, it most likely means either ET 3 or RSP 2.

A lot of your premise relies on 1 copy of Aux to batts, but I've run the build and it's not reliable without 2 copies to have other powers at GCD.

It's still useful, but not nearly as much IMO.


Last edited by ussultimatum; 02-28-2013 at 05:55 AM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,600
# 22
02-27-2013, 03:33 PM
as i said before, i can't wait to have my APA doffs coming our way......
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Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,452
# 23
02-27-2013, 03:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
That's not due to the DEM doff, its a much larger issue - one that encompasses lockbox ships like the Recluse and Wells as well as what an Eng brings vs. what a Sci brings.
I never claimed it was the only issue... but its a major one.

In general Cryptic has stepped all over the Captain abilities of both Sci and Engi with the doff system.... seeing as the Engi skills where already boarder line useful... it really seems like they are simply trying to make them completely pointless.

Nuke doffs where a terrible idea... because its a captain level skill.
Marion is terrible for the exact same reason.

We are now due for an Alpha Doff... and it will be a terrible idea as well.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 225
# 24
02-27-2013, 04:21 PM
i love doffs. i can switch them in combat and give special proc chances to otherwise marginally useful powers. heres a list of osme of my favorites

aftershock psw: ball crush with pumped psw3 vs minelayer/carrier: dozens of 20k crit insta kill whole group

esyphon special juel ducane : every hobo brings a lil spice with that drain build, 25% proc any system off (sadly no stacky)

Cpb placate: aoe 5s jam stackable to 60% chance: hells yeah

of course the battery dmg guys help beam overload

the tactical team cd ones also give u attack pattern skill: extra dmg/resist/defense/turn to apa and omega and 10% sev/ .7% crit%


Doffs add an intriguing compelxity and offered variety to many otherwise useless powers.

Whether it be sensor scan as a offensive debuff, or turning vminto an afterparty, doffs are great.

In a game where i maxed out in 3 days 3 yrs ago, Im happy to have new ways to improve my ship/character, be it doff/reps/ boff specials.

look forward to soecketing, if u dont like complxity and sadly it brings further balancing challenges, i cant agree with you

sorry for infinite sp fail
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 585
# 25
02-27-2013, 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by emoejoe View Post

esyphon special juel ducane : every hobo brings a lil spice with that drain build, 25% proc any system off (sadly no stacky)
You can have up to three active at once. When you apply an Energy Siphon it'll roll once for each of the DOff's chance to proc.

That said, it's a Phaser proc (even shares global immunity with 'em), and can be reduced to sub 1-second duration by Leadership BOffs and Subsystem Repair.
If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,452
# 26
02-27-2013, 04:46 PM
I like the idea of the doff system in general.

There are some fun doffs... and some doffs that do make mediocre skills interesting.

The main issue is there is a handful of doffs that are TERRIBLE. Ones that anyone that has been pvping for a week can see are terrible... but somehow Cryptic doesn't see it.

Well that isn't true... fact is they know exactly how terrible they are and simply don't care.

There is no reason for a DEM doff or a Sub Nuke doff or an Attack Pattern Doff to exist unless you are marketing the system to PvPers.

We are the only ones that drop 10mil ec on an Attack Pattern Doff... or any of the other ones. Which drives the sale of Doff packs and keys by both us and the Pve kids looking to make bank.

I hope they choose the buffs for the socketing system with more care... and there is the real issue. I am sure they will. They will choose some very broken junk, knowing that we the PvP crowed will push the cost of those items in game and drive there little market scheme.

All well we have no right to wine about balance when we are the ones that make the broken stuff so profitable are we.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 173
# 27
02-27-2013, 07:20 PM
thanks for the post mini. it gave me some scary ideas
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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,936
# 28
02-28-2013, 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by emoejoe View Post
snip
Thanks for the tip mate. My Steamrunner just go significantly more entertaining to fly thanks to this. Not sure if it is more effective but a good bit more fun.
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Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 33
# 29
04-14-2013, 04:25 AM
In contrast of what has been said in this thread ,the DEM doffs (Marion) do not stack !

If you do load 2 or 3 of them ,the tooltip will display 2x or 3x "+200 Resistance to weapons subsystem energy drain for 8 seconds" but the action is working only for those initial 8 seconds of active DEM.
We tested it and it was verified.
So dont do the mistake i did and waste your credits on a second Marion,which for the KDF side is currently around 50 million ECs.
For escorts that can only use DEM 1,the skill is pretty much useless without the doff.
With Marion though u get a 8 second window of indeed massive dps.Is it worth it ? Maybe.
Many escorts are tempted to use Beam Overload within that time spam to take advantage of
the drain resistance.No doubt u will get quite a few insta kill crit BO shots.But considering the fact that u use a Lt Eng skill for DEM ,and u only realy use the 8 seconds of the 30 duration of the skill as well as the fact that besides that one BO shot ,u will have a lower dps weapon slotted (DBB in place of a forth DHC) the approach is controversial at best
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,521
# 30
04-14-2013, 05:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cryox1 View Post
In contrast of what has been said in this thread ,the DEM doffs (Marion) do not stack !

If you do load 2 or 3 of them ,the tooltip will display 2x or 3x "+200 Resistance to weapons subsystem energy drain for 8 seconds" but the action is working only for those initial 8 seconds of active DEM.
We tested it and it was verified.
Would you mind explaining how you tested this? I can think of two ways for 3 copies of Marion Frances Dulmur to stack: +200 drain resistance for 24 seconds or +600 drain resistance for 8 seconds. Of course, the utility of the latter is questionable. But how are you distinguishing +200 drain resistance for 8 seconds from +600 drain resistance for 8 seconds?

If Marion Frances Dulmur is not stacking or is not stacking in a useful way, then the power should be fixed. All other doffs that you can slot 3 copies of do stack.
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