Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,176
# 31
02-28-2013, 06:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dareau View Post
Could someone in this thread answer me this:

I am a science captain, science vessel.

In PvP, I wind up 1 vs 1 an escort. I catch said escort piling on the buffs, so I hit him with a subnuc. Cool, I might actually survive his attack...

However, how am I supposed to kill him through the super-high defense value, the rep and set heals that might proc, and his couple of self-heals?

Remember, without going lockbox, the best tactical setup I have is the RSV (Luna class), which gives me one lt. tactical ability, as I need to burn both ensigns on TT for the 66% uptime to operate my shield tanking abilities...

Meanwhile, what are the odds that his normal guns will still pop me in the 33%ish time that the TTs are cycling, as both my engineering slots are slotting EPtS? My only hull heals therefore are HEs and I'll be taking bleedthrough the entire time...
this is the reason i switched to KDF. Now i main 2 sci's in a B'rel. Torpedos, mines, i run full AUX all the time. Gravity Well Tachyon Beam, TBR. It'S fun, try it!

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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,711
# 32
02-28-2013, 08:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post

In PvE, people were using tric mines to one-shot gates and such, breaking the missions in a way.
This is the real reason why Trics were nerfed. Can't have folks finishing an STF in 4 minutes after all! All it took was a good lucky crit and even tac cubes were one shotted, orso I hear. My own all torp/mine ship never did anything near that... although it DID tend to have highest DPS in the group, a very cool feat for a sci cap in a sci vessel.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,711
# 33
02-28-2013, 08:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by squatsauce View Post
At some point someone needs to take a look at the current hull/shield values, determine an upper limit to damage resistance (which has been done) and then determine an upper limit to damage output (not been done at all), then set hull and shield values that are meaningful in terms of damage resistance.
Unnecessary Beam whining aside, I do think the game is balanced on completely the wrong curve points.

They say they balance things based on what the average player does.... but then allow the system to scale off to extremes and then people wonder what's wrong?!?!? This has bad effects both on PC and NPC ships.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 166
# 34
02-28-2013, 02:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by resoundingenvoy View Post

loading159, All your secnarios assume I have nothing better to do then be purely offensive or spend my time watch what the other team is doing. I could just as well ask why didn't you count of 60 seconds between bursts, or watch for a dispersal pattern beta popping up.

I require a frame of reference to answer that. loading159, when is the last time you tried to do pure support? When is the last time you had to plan out your flight path in a carrier (or something else with a maximum turn rate of 6 to 9 deg/sec.) to keep from being out maneuvered too badly?

More then that, if I actually were able to show you "that an escort can one shot your shields AND hull dealing 600,000 damage with one volley", would you actually listen and read it, or would anything I say be ignored regardless because "I obviously have nothing useful to say"?
the only reason I chose 15 seconds was because I was just trying to give some advice to anyone reading. yes we could go through an entire 60 seconds but there are just so many possibilities that other capts can throw at you.

ok yea I do fly my escort a ton more than my cruiser. but thats because I like fast paced combat, got bored flying around in circles in my cruiser. When I do use my cruiser I fly the dreadnought or the ambassador. I try to keep the classes roles distinct on my characters so my tac focuses on dps and my eng focuses on tanking/support.

If you showed me an escort that can deal 600,000 damage in one volley id be listening, because I would for sure try that. so long as its not tric mines. those just are not fun.


I deleted half your quote I wanted to use but oh well. I agree that the op needs to offer something to fix the "problem" or tell us how/why he dies so fast. what his build is so maybe we can help. etc.
Captain Moe
U.S.S. Prometheus
Fleet Multi Vector Advanced Escort
Resistance is futile
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 166
# 35
02-28-2013, 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dareau View Post
Could someone in this thread answer me this:

I am a science captain, science vessel.

In PvP, I wind up 1 vs 1 an escort. I catch said escort piling on the buffs, so I hit him with a subnuc. Cool, I might actually survive his attack...

However, how am I supposed to kill him through the super-high defense value, the rep and set heals that might proc, and his couple of self-heals?

Remember, without going lockbox, the best tactical setup I have is the RSV (Luna class), which gives me one lt. tactical ability, as I need to burn both ensigns on TT for the 66% uptime to operate my shield tanking abilities...

Meanwhile, what are the odds that his normal guns will still pop me in the 33%ish time that the TTs are cycling, as both my engineering slots are slotting EPtS? My only hull heals therefore are HEs and I'll be taking bleedthrough the entire time...
Viral matrix causes escorts huge problems, and since you already hit him with a subnuc, you just wasted all his alpha abilities and they are now on cool down. youll have no trouble defending against this. there are also doffs that work with sensor scan ( i think thats the ability?) to reduce the targets offensive damage.
Captain Moe
U.S.S. Prometheus
Fleet Multi Vector Advanced Escort
Resistance is futile
Lieutenant
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 94
# 36
02-28-2013, 03:37 PM
i have a tac fed side and i have yet to re-create the 81.8k quantum torpedo crit i ate from an escort in pvp about a week and a half ago.

note it wasn't a high yield 3 or spread - just a straight quantum torpedo crit.


as we have been saying since day 1, remove the tac ability to stack ALL of their +dmg buffs. they need to have a global cooldown equal to the attack pattern alpha duration.

it's disheartening to come back after 3 years to see that the problem only got worse and not better. it's equally disheartening to see the amount of players who have no idea what they are doing in ise or kse or can't solo kill two probes in under 30 seconds due to game changes like segregating the various stages of STF's, substantial increase in base damage for everyone and the dumbing down of space and ground combat in story modes. undine used to be a real threat before you could change your mission difficulty - now they are about as dangerous as a taco.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 203
# 37
02-28-2013, 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dixa1 View Post
i have a tac fed side and i have yet to re-create the 81.8k quantum torpedo crit i ate from an escort in pvp about a week and a half ago.

note it wasn't a high yield 3 or spread - just a straight quantum torpedo crit.


as we have been saying since day 1, remove the tac ability to stack ALL of their +dmg buffs. they need to have a global cooldown equal to the attack pattern alpha duration.

it's disheartening to come back after 3 years to see that the problem only got worse and not better. it's equally disheartening to see the amount of players who have no idea what they are doing in ise or kse or can't solo kill two probes in under 30 seconds due to game changes like segregating the various stages of STF's, substantial increase in base damage for everyone and the dumbing down of space and ground combat in story modes. undine used to be a real threat before you could change your mission difficulty - now they are about as dangerous as a taco.
You can choke on a taco and die I MAY choke on my own laughter when fighting undine
***
Growing old is inevitable. Growing up is optional.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,046
# 38
02-28-2013, 06:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by loading159 View Post
Viral matrix causes escorts huge problems, and since you already hit him with a subnuc, you just wasted all his alpha abilities and they are now on cool down. youll have no trouble defending against this. there are also doffs that work with sensor scan ( i think thats the ability?) to reduce the targets offensive damage.
As I alluded to earlier, after the subnuc, "standard" shield tanking by a sci with 2xTT and EPtS I/II should allow me to stand up to the escort's standard fire without losing a shield at all. However, I'm still vulnerable to death-by-bleedthrough, and I'm also vulnerable once the cooldowns on the escort's buffs recycle - as a subnuc takes 2 minutes to recharge...

Therefore, the question remains, can I, with 2xDBB + torp + 2x-3x aft turrets + Lt. level tactical BOff power + science powers (2 ens. 2 Lt. 2 Lt. Cmd& 1 Cmdr, figure that there will be 2xHE for hull heals & 1x Polarize Hull for anti-tractor defense, so you have 5 BOff slots of 12 to play with).

VM will maybe extend my window of debilitation by 8-10 seconds if the weapons offline effect kicks in just as the subnuc/cooldowns on the alpha expire, and it might give me 8-10 seconds of "little to no defense" with it's engine offline proc. However, neither of these alone will enable/ensure that I will get the kill - as it is, I'm figuring that I have about 15-20 seconds, tops, to blow through shields, as the second tac team will go off "on schedule" reinforcing the escort's shields and shortly after escort's TT #2 expires the subnuc ends, and escort TT #1 will re-engage shortly after... So it most likely becomes a bleedthrough race, and I'm down a forward weapon, don't get cannons (RSV), and I have less hull (because I'm a shield tanker) than the escort to begin with...
Well, with the upgrade announcement leaving NX and Connie fans in the dust again, can we restart / revisit the T5 Connie and NX threads - since they will no longer be "truly" endgame ships... (after we get the T5 versions, it'll be time to see them added to the T5U upgrade charts too...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 166
# 39
03-01-2013, 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dareau View Post
As I alluded to earlier, after the subnuc, "standard" shield tanking by a sci with 2xTT and EPtS I/II should allow me to stand up to the escort's standard fire without losing a shield at all. However, I'm still vulnerable to death-by-bleedthrough, and I'm also vulnerable once the cooldowns on the escort's buffs recycle - as a subnuc takes 2 minutes to recharge...

Therefore, the question remains, can I, with 2xDBB + torp + 2x-3x aft turrets + Lt. level tactical BOff power + science powers (2 ens. 2 Lt. 2 Lt. Cmd& 1 Cmdr, figure that there will be 2xHE for hull heals & 1x Polarize Hull for anti-tractor defense, so you have 5 BOff slots of 12 to play with).

VM will maybe extend my window of debilitation by 8-10 seconds if the weapons offline effect kicks in just as the subnuc/cooldowns on the alpha expire, and it might give me 8-10 seconds of "little to no defense" with it's engine offline proc. However, neither of these alone will enable/ensure that I will get the kill - as it is, I'm figuring that I have about 15-20 seconds, tops, to blow through shields, as the second tac team will go off "on schedule" reinforcing the escort's shields and shortly after escort's TT #2 expires the subnuc ends, and escort TT #1 will re-engage shortly after... So it most likely becomes a bleedthrough race, and I'm down a forward weapon, don't get cannons (RSV), and I have less hull (because I'm a shield tanker) than the escort to begin with...
this is why I only play escorts and cruisers, lol.
Captain Moe
U.S.S. Prometheus
Fleet Multi Vector Advanced Escort
Resistance is futile
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 432
# 40
03-01-2013, 03:56 PM
Ok, I ignored the board yesterday to clear my head. I'm going to have to spend a hour or two breaking this into a couple of different posts.

--------

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokersmith1 View Post
That sounds interesting. Ok, I'm listening.
The snark I detect and the fact you didn't actually wait for a answer tells me otherwise. Infant you go on to tell me you've already prejudiced your self...

Quote:
The earth and jupiter are both planets. That does not make them equivalent. I'm sorry, but in this case, you don't know the very semantics that you are employing to try and win your argument.
I'd ask where earth and jupiter belong in this metaphor, but I'm not sure you paid enough attention to be able to place them. Nor am I sure where you got that metaphore. I went out of my way to grant the differences.

Either way: "I will answer [loading159], but I will answer no more sidetracks. I'm spending all my time debating defensive walls rather then the OP." (Because I know someone is going to jump on me for answering more, I said no more sidetracks. Not that I'd become mute.)
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