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Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 453
# 21
02-28-2013, 10:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortiraomega View Post
Well, it looks like assault has gone from a game of out thinking your opponent to a straight arena match. Part of the challenge of the game was defending the defense post and watching for cloaked players at the rear flank. It made for some interesting matches. Cloak under stealth module wasn't perfect with the virus anyway. It emits the high pitch virus sound Fx and the virus runner is partially visible at higher graphic levels. And to block all stealth abilities? That means no stealth module, no omega force distortion field, and no ambush. Any tactical officer with the operative kit would be crippled if they picked up the virus. Half of their kit abilities would be blocked. Wouldn't buffing the turret perception level to that of an elite tactical drone on the elite difficulty solve this problem? They can see through cloak at close range and it wouldn't cripple operative tactical officers.
600+ stealth (i.e. Operative with Covert) does not emit the glow fx at higher graphics levels and is not visible to turrets, players, elite tactical drones, a player with Target Optics and 20 Tricorder Scans on him, or God Himself.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,395
# 22
02-28-2013, 10:17 AM
think i'll stick with fire team.
Ensign
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 16
# 23
02-28-2013, 10:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Can you imagine a game that had a Capture The Flag map where the Flag Runner was allowed to be completely invisible with no max duration?

I can't. So I removed it from STO today.

Players in possession of the Virus on Shanty Town will find themselves unable to activate Stealth abilities until they get rid of the Virus. Or die.

I'm hoping this change makes it to Tribble this week.
Very nice fix. In most other MMOs, the "flag carrier" is VERY visible both in the game world, and on the minimap. The notion that a flag carrier could carry a flag (or in this case, a virus) while simultaneously being near invisible and unseen on the minimap, is completely alien to me. And i've played alot of MMOs over the years.

Picking up a flag (or virus), should logically remove you from stealth/cloak. The same would be if you get a DoT on you, and try stealthing. DoT damage would "break" the stealth.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,417
# 24
02-28-2013, 10:38 AM
You might want to at least lower jump height for the carrier.
Ensign
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 16
# 25
02-28-2013, 10:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
You might want to at least lower jump height for the carrier.
The carrier should get certain movement debuffs while carrying (you know, like every other CTF game mode). Reduced speed (possibly over time, 5% after 10 sec, 10% after 20 sec etc, ending at at 25% speed reduction), as well as reduced vertical movement (i.e jumping height).

Caitians/Ferasans would still be better at jumping due to their innate traits, but not be able to exploit the relatively low walls.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 453
# 26
02-28-2013, 10:48 AM
STO has so many slow and hold abilities that I don't think a movement debuff would really be beneficial. A jump height debuff would help prevent some of the pathing exploits, though, that's a good idea.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,395
# 27
02-28-2013, 10:49 AM
nvm didnt read the post
Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 275
# 28 o.o
02-28-2013, 10:50 AM
How about instead of that horrible virus effect we currently have you just have an arrow above your charecter to indicate he has the virus as well as removing the kill count and adding a timer to the match as I suggested.

Last edited by akurie666; 02-28-2013 at 01:52 PM.
Survivor of Remus
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 273
# 29
03-01-2013, 12:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortiraomega View Post
Well, it looks like assault has gone from a game of out thinking your opponent to a straight arena match. Part of the challenge of the game was defending the defense post and watching for cloaked players at the rear flank. It made for some interesting matches. Cloak under stealth module wasn't perfect with the virus anyway. It emits the high pitch virus sound Fx and the virus runner is partially visible at higher graphic levels. And to block all stealth abilities? That means no stealth module, no omega force distortion field, and no ambush. Any tactical officer with the operative kit would be crippled if they picked up the virus. Half of their kit abilities would be blocked. Wouldn't buffing the turret perception level to that of an elite tactical drone on the elite difficulty solve this problem? They can see through cloak at close range and it wouldn't cripple operative tactical officers.
There are 2 issues with stealth on the ground,the first being poor stealth detection.That problem is twofold,the stealth user can obtain perfect cloak,and the limitations in effectiveness and number of stealth detection abilities.The other issue is the fact that there is no real drawback to using stealth abilities,a slightly lower movement speed when using Stealth on the Operative kit is hardly a 'drawback'.

First of all,perfect cloak has to go,a hard cap to stealth values is necessary.Not being able to detect a cloaked opponent who is right in front of you,while you are using stealth detecting abilities is just ridiculous.Second,each career should have 2 abilities available to them to detect cloaked opponents,1 Captain and 1 kit ability.And third,Stealth abilities should have a real drawback to the user,like inactive shields while cloaked.

Now,if you are one of those people that need cloak to win,you probably won't agree with a single word in this post.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,886
# 30
03-01-2013, 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by guriphu View Post
600+ stealth (i.e. Operative with Covert) does not emit the glow fx at higher graphics levels and is not visible to turrets, players, elite tactical drones, a player with Target Optics and 20 Tricorder Scans on him, or God Himself.
You misread my post. When a cloaked player has the virus they emit a glow fx even when cloaked at higher graphic levels. There is also the distinct virus sound fx when the player is within 18m of the virus runner. Elite and Heavy Tactical Drones do indeed see through player cloak on the elite difficulty. Testing this is simple, just shoot at one in Khitomer Accord Ground Elite. They will see you and they will shoot at you. And 20 tricorder scans stacked on the player? That would be at least -1000 stealth assuming all 20 science officers had 0 points in scientist. The most cloaking an operative tactical officer with the covert trait can get is 612 stealth with 9 points in special forces. A single science officer will decrease that stealth rating to 562, which is visible at about 8 meters. A science officer with 6 points in scientist will drop a stealth rating by 92, which would drop the stealth rating to 520. That cloaker will be visible up until about 25 meters. And with the halved walking speed, how are they going to outrun you? And lastly, with the AoE nature of tricorder scan, it is possible to detect cloakers even without targeting them directly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carcharodon1975 View Post
There are 2 issues with stealth on the ground,the first being poor stealth detection.That problem is twofold,the stealth user can obtain perfect cloak,and the limitations in effectiveness and number of stealth detection abilities.The other issue is the fact that there is no real drawback to using stealth abilities,a slightly lower movement speed when using Stealth on the Operative kit is hardly a 'drawback'.

First of all,perfect cloak has to go,a hard cap to stealth values is necessary.Not being able to detect a cloaked opponent who is right in front of you,while you are using stealth detecting abilities is just ridiculous.Second,each career should have 2 abilities available to them to detect cloaked opponents,1 Captain and 1 kit ability.And third,Stealth abilities should have a real drawback to the user,like inactive shields while cloaked.

Now,if you are one of those people that need cloak to win,you probably won't agree with a single word in this post.
I agree with some of that you have said. There needs to be a wider range of stealth detection abilities, similar to space. Perhaps changing tricorder scan and fire on my mark to work like charged particle burst in space. A hit from the ability disables cloak for the duration. The science ability damper field should disable any cloak abilities within the field. It's a damper field, it makes sense to disable cloak as well. For engineering, it would be nice to see a new kit ability like Tachyon Detection Grid. -100 stealth to all enemies within the 15 meter field of the generator. Lastly, target optics should have an area effect -50 stealth debuff (improved through skill points) similar to tricorder scan.

As for having no major drawbacks, I have to disagree with you there. The player cannot run from cloak and they walk much slower than a player not using stealth. It is impossible for a cloaked player to keep up with or outrun a decloaked player, making a detected stealth player very vulnerable. Disabling shields would be overkill.

On the matter of "no perfect stealth", again I disagree. Space combat has no stealth cap, and it is possible to build a bird of prey with perfect stealth. It is a playstyle, and as with ground cloak, there are a some very vocal players complaining about perfect stealth in space. In both space and ground it is possible to anticipate a perfect stealth player. The buff sequence sound effect is very distinct. As with space bird of prey, cloaked players need a distraction to be effective. In a 1v1 where the other player is aware of the cloaker, once they counter (Vascular regnerator, reroute power to shields, emergency shield capacator, distortion field, cortazine hypo, etc.) the alpha strike the cloaker has very few options. The same is true in space, a well timed tactical team and Emergency Power to Shields I will blunt the alpha, and that bird of prey will either run or die. The big difference between ground and space is the fact that space has a large number of counters. All it takes is one well placed charged particle burst and that perfect stealth build is out of cloak for 20 seconds.

Last edited by majortiraomega; 03-01-2013 at 12:22 PM.
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