Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,144
# 71
03-02-2013, 03:20 PM
Readers may be interested in the following:

http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0204022

Download the pdf file to read the full paper. The introduction is as follows:

This is a brief survey of the current status of Stephen Hawking's ``chronology protection conjecture''. That is: ``Why does nature abhor a time machine?'' I'll discuss a few examples of spacetimes containing ``time machines'' (closed causal curves), the sorts of peculiarities that arise, and the reactions of the physics community. While pointing out other possibilities, this article concentrates on the possibility of ``chronology protection''. As Stephen puts it:
``It seems that there is a Chronology Protection Agency which prevents the appearance of closed timelike curves and so makes the universe safe for historians.''

Further reading is advised in the areas of quantum fluctuations, the double slit experiment, quantum entaglement and computing. Also to try and get your head around the scale of the numbers involved here note that a quantum event and the collapse of the wave front can theoretically happen at levels of the plank time, has been happening at that level since the big bang until now. The plank time is smallest measurement of time that will ever be possible at around 10−43 sec and is the answer to Zeno?s Paradox of the Tortoise and Achilles.

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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,061
# 72
03-02-2013, 04:01 PM
Canon is what zealots used to cram ideas people's throats and cannon is what people used to cram projectiles down people's throats, though they sound the same, they are not spelled the same, you lose all credibility when you cannot even spell the idea that you are trying to cram down people's throats.

There are multitudes of Trek episodes that prominently feature parallel timelines that was created by altering the past and just because you cannot comprehend it does not mean we have to listen to you ramble on and on about it. The best episode is DS9's The Visitor, the whole premise of the episode is about Jake Sisko changing the present timeline by altering the past.
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,302
# 73
03-02-2013, 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattjohnsonva View Post
Readers may be interested in the following:

http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0204022

Download the pdf file to read the full paper. The introduction is as follows:

This is a brief survey of the current status of Stephen Hawking's ``chronology protection conjecture''. That is: ``Why does nature abhor a time machine?'' I'll discuss a few examples of spacetimes containing ``time machines'' (closed causal curves), the sorts of peculiarities that arise, and the reactions of the physics community. While pointing out other possibilities, this article concentrates on the possibility of ``chronology protection''. As Stephen puts it:
``It seems that there is a Chronology Protection Agency which prevents the appearance of closed timelike curves and so makes the universe safe for historians.''
"I don't want to live in a universe that would allow time travel. Unfortunately, the universe cares little for what I want." - Prof. Stephen Hawking.


"I won't try to hide behind the Law if what I stand for is what's Right."

The Masterverse Timeline / Ten Forward Fanfics
Lieutenant
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 67
# 74
03-02-2013, 05:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldarion79 View Post
Canon is what zealots used to cram ideas people's throats and cannon is what people used to cram projectiles down people's throats, though they sound the same, they are not spelled the same, you lose all credibility when you cannot even spell the idea that you are trying to cram down people's throats.

There are multitudes of Trek episodes that prominently feature parallel timelines that was created by altering the past and just because you cannot comprehend it does not mean we have to listen to you ramble on and on about it. The best episode is DS9's The Visitor, the whole premise of the episode is about Jake Sisko changing the present timeline by altering the past.
Firstly you made my point for me further Jake changed the timeline, not created a new alternate universe. Secondly in Star Trek CANON one theory of time travel has prevailed in that fiction. I am not talking about current theories on spacetime, if you want the current theories on spacetime write your own Sci Fi. Thirdly I am sorry that my Dyslexia offends you, having Dyslexia I rely heavily on the spell check function so as is common with Dyslexics on computer sites words that sound the same yet have various spellings are often misused but being a forum regular of such wide intellect surely you would have realised this. I hate absolute non-entities who make sweeping statements from found-less observations, I hope that you never have to deal with someone you care about having Dyslexia but it may give you some humility!


Also Mr High and mighty while we are picking people up on their English skills, I find your use of the word Zealot hilarious not only because of the irony in a game based on science but the word means specifically someone who is for God or a god. So can you kindly tell me what god I am promoting please!

Last edited by kaaahhhhhnnnnn; 03-02-2013 at 05:32 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 152
# 75
03-02-2013, 05:49 PM
I mention only in passing that zealot has a slightly broader definition:

zeal?ot (zlt)
n.
1.
a. One who is zealous, especially excessively so.
b. A fanatically committed person.
2. Zealot A member of a Jewish movement of the first century a.d. that fought against Roman rule in Palestine as incompatible with strict monotheism.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Middle English zelote, from Latin zlts, from Greek, from zlos, zeal.]
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,061
# 76
03-02-2013, 05:57 PM
In that episode, two timelines were presented, the first one is where Sisko died and and second one is where he did not. These two universes were connect at one single focal point that Jake Sisko used to change our (the viewer if you did not understand that) timeline into the one that Sisko survives in.

Which means that first timeline still exists, just like the other timelines presented in TNG Parallels.

The term zealot does not have a relation to God or to any deity. If you are going to insult with the use of the word at least know its definition. For your benefit, a zealot is an individual who shows zeal or intensity or passion for a particular object, ideology (which is you), or a person.

Last edited by eldarion79; 03-02-2013 at 06:03 PM. Reason: for more info
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,710
# 77
03-02-2013, 06:07 PM
Long ago us TOS lovers were usurped by The Next Generation lovers who trod upon us and refused to share their space with ships from that series that "ruin their immersion."

Now with JJ Trek, it's the genner's turn to be ostracized as JJ Trek picked what they believed was the most exciting and pertinent series to copy, TOS.

Don't worry, most of us TOS lovers are nowhere near as viscious and most of us were willing to share space with all the new ships.

Now that the shoe is on the other foot, those who were so mean before can see how it feels now that everything beyond the 2009 movie only exists in a probable timeline.
If your post is anything like, "I have a sandwich so you can't be starving" it's time to rethink posting.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 67
# 78
03-02-2013, 06:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldarion79 View Post
In that episode, two timelines were presented, the first one is where Sisko died and and second one is where he did not. These two universes were connect at one single focal point that Jake Sisko used to change our (the viewer if you did not understand that) timeline into the one that Sisko survives in.

Which means that first timeline still exists, just like the other timelines presented in TNG Parallels.

The term zealot does not have a relation to God or to any deity. If you are going to insult with the use of the word at least know its definition. For your benefit, a zealot is an individual who shows zeal or intensity or passion for a particular object, ideology (which is you), or a person.
I think you will find the etymology of the word steeped in religion and it comes from Hebrew where it means one who is zealous on behalf of God. Like all words it has evolved a wider meaning but still has heavily religious connotations even the words used to describe it such as Zeal, the origins of which can be traced back to ancient Greece and the God Zelus. The word fanaticism comes from the word Fanatic which was a word derived from an old Latin/Roman word of someone who visits a Temple or Place of worship although in recent history fanaticism has been used to describe political movements such as the Third Reich but then we come back to religion again.

I may have trouble spelling words but my vocabulary and understanding of the language is unsurpassed so I am afraid you are wrong the word is heavily religious and my point stands. What deity am I promoting or more correctly which deity do I have Zeal for!
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 793
# 79
03-02-2013, 06:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaaahhhhhnnnnn View Post
In First Contact when the Borg Sphere goes back in time and prevents Zephram Cochrane's warp flight the Enterprise still in the present witness a change immediately and then go back fix what went wrong and return to the unaltered present.
Again these events change slight things in the past as Borg are left on Earth and that is an example of effect preceding cause as this is what causes the first Borg cube to come to Earth as seen in Q-Who. Again changes in the past effecting the present not creating an alternate timeline where nothing remains changes in the prime universe and an alternate universe is created. There is one timeline, it is a singular and it can be changed and fixed.
Did I miss this part of the movie???

***Disenchanted***
Real Join Date: Monday, 17 May 2010
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,740
# 80
03-02-2013, 07:01 PM
Please, let's not get into a vocabulary-measuring contest. You will lose.

Or is that what's left, as your original point has been shredded by reference to events actually in Star Trek canon? Yes, there are multiple timelines, with various points of divergence, that have been shown on screen - it is not merely a binary choice between the classic Roddenberry timeline and the Mirror Universe. In "Parallels", the entire sector was threatened by the mass proliferation of Enterprises. There were literally thousands of timelines represented. One of them might well have been the future of the new Trek movie!

As for the meaning of "zealot", your point there stands only if we are speaking Hebrew. Last I checked, though, we're using English in here, and in English, while the term derives from a particular school of Judaic semi-mystics of the Maccabean era, it in fact means someone devoted to a particular cause. It is not outside the bounds of our language to refer to someone's zealotry for atheism! (It is, to be sure, amusing - but it's still a valid usage of the term.) And attempting to deconstruct someone's argument by quibbling about the source of a single word used indicates that you lack any more substantive argument to support your own position.
-------------------------------------------
I'm old enough not to care too much about what you think of me --
But I'm young enough to remember the future, the way things ought to be...

- Rush, "Cut To the Chase", Counterparts
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