Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,753
# 71
03-03-2013, 12:16 AM
Originally Posted by warbird001 View Post

I just think all Cryptic are worried about is their paycheck, they really couldn't care about the problems that already exist in game. A lot of the recent "stealth nerfs" and Fleet Mark reductions were done to try and make the game content last until May...
I can tell you that whether the average dev cares or not the problem does not lie with them, its at the top. The guys in charge have decided which way the hours get spent and no one can step out of line from those mandates.

Looking at the Kumari launch fiasco, they were clearly not given enough time to test things. A ship launching with bugs is pretty normal these days, but not to the extent of the bugs seen in the Kumari. It would not surprise me if the devs were up all night, just barely getting it close to a working condition so they could meet the deadline.

It kinda makes me think things aren't as going as well as we are lead to believe to see them release what was clearly a money grab ship pack (one ship, twice the profits, with a clear advantage over current escorts to sweeten the pot) so soon after a new lockbox. Maybe the new lockbox just hasn't sold as well for them to make such a rushed push to get the Kumari out?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 497
# 72
03-03-2013, 12:55 AM
Originally Posted by skyranger1414 View Post
It kinda makes me think things aren't as going as well as we are lead to believe to see them release what was clearly a money grab ship pack (one ship, twice the profits, with a clear advantage over current escorts to sweeten the pot) so soon after a new lockbox. Maybe the new lockbox just hasn't sold as well for them to make such a rushed push to get the Kumari out?
I think you might be right. I'll have to call it a gut feeling based on minimal evidence, but I think the seemingly smaller playerbase than even many single player games causes a lot of the extra attempts to generate cash. Large population; you can spread it out, small population; you need more from each individual player.

As for the Dominion lock box I didn't open a single one. To put that into perspective: I opened hundreds of the previous lock boxes. The dilithium mining claim was a major deterrent for me, and I know I'm not the only one that felt that way about it.
I'll sell you some weapons from New Romulus. Never fired, only dropped once.
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,366
# 73
03-03-2013, 01:16 AM
I miss Heretic.

I also hate the complete lack of focus and balance in this game combined with the terrible documentation of how things work.

Why should activity A when done with Option B provide double the progression while taking half the time?

They just seem to be throwing stuff against a wall to see what will stick, what will be attractive to us as consumers.

Perfect example is the doff system, I have a sneaky feeling that the doffs haven't been selling all that well for them lately. And they likely think the reason is the UI even though the UI for everything in this game can be described as 'functional but inelegant.'

They continue to create catch 22 situations for themselves. No one plays KDF so the one ship they release for them (bortas) which had terribly anti-fun design embedded into it doesn't sell they just give up and start throwing other random stuff against the wall to see if it will stick instead of examining the reason why it did not sell.

Dominion lockbox not doing well? That can be summed up very quickly as for why.
1- No extremely desireable doffs
2- Bound mining claims
3- No extremely desireable ship

I swear Cryptic is the only company I have seen that quite literally gives you a reason on purpose not to give them money, or forces you to undertake a lengthy in game grind first.

They need to hire someone with knowledge in economics and/or sociology.

Originally Posted by red01999 View Post
I think what this boils down to is "product" versus "service," and it seems that unless it is addressed, the massive weak point of any game with an F2P model is the treatment of service as product.
Consider my mind blown. You pretty much just summed up the issue of F2P perfectly.

Last edited by bareel; 03-03-2013 at 01:21 AM.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,702
# 74
03-03-2013, 03:21 AM
Originally Posted by ranncore View Post
but it seems a little silly that there's no real choice about what kind of ship to get if you want to be competitive.
Don't take this the wrong way (I'm not dissing you because you're a new player) , but that kind of view is strictly in the eyes of the beholder .

I originally wanted to get a science vessel, because that's the style of play I prefer, but they seem vastly inferior to the escort models.
Never be afraid to experiment or to play what you really want to play .
I have played this game for 3 years , I have toons in all professions across both sides , and I take whatever toon/ship/profession into STF's or PvP as I feel like doing , as long as don't feel like I'm doing a disservice to my team because of a badly equipped/trained ship/crew .

I hope you'll eventually get to the point where you'll be able to afford more than one c-store ship and I hope you'll enjoy each of your purchases .
I am losing STO with each new system based update and with each removal and editing of content .
I don't know how to save her from her systems obsessed masters who seek to control and monetize me more and more .

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 233
# 75
03-03-2013, 04:29 AM
I think a lot of us are just tired of the deceitful level that Cryptic has gone to, we are tired of broken promises, downright lies and things to show that they are more greedy then concerned with the development of the game.

Of course, it might come down to what PWE demands of them, being a Chinese company, I can only imagine how much profit Cryptic HAVE to make. Cryptic's become something of a "dodgy car salesman"

Of course, I say that before the Holy "May Update" but I just get this gut feeling, we are in for one big dissapointment again.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 104
# 76
03-03-2013, 05:23 AM
The bug ship is a game breaker? PvP is why most people play? Lockboxes are the root of all evil in the game?

The bug ship (aka Jem'Hadar attack ship) is a super glass-cannon. It's got no crew, only one science console, and no sci BOff slots. And yes, I know it has higher HP, turn rate, inertia and impulse modifier than other escorts, but with a crew of only 50 you only need to get caught by one full volley from any other ship, and you're boned. What do you spend your sci console on? Biofunction monitor to try and keep your crew alive so you have a chance to repair some HP, or an emitter array/field generator/shield emitter amplifier so your shields don't evaporate quite so quickly? And yes, you've got two universal BOff slots, but if you've got any sense you'll give one to a sci anyway, so where do you put the other? Tac doesn't need any more powers (HY torp, torp spread, cannon scatter, cannon rapid fire, tac team, 2x attack pattern should be more than enough - if you have beams, swap torp spread for FaW, and lose an attack pattern for beam target shields), so do you want to double your sci powers, or add to the eng powers and match survivability with the four eng consoles? The bug ship can break your game, but if you know what you're doing, you can break it's game just as easily.

As for PvP - nope. I don't know about the statistics for take-up of the scenarios, but I personally have never played PvP beyond the tutorials, and I never will. And when I take a new toon through them, the queues always take a long time to fill. I've had shorter waits to start Cure Ground STFs, and since the reputation system came out those have been loooooong.

Now for lockboxes - I agree that PWE are bringing them out at too high a rate to be sustainable (one new lockbox per season would probably be better). But the concept and execution is otherwise sound. Each lockbox has contained something that I really would have liked to get my hands on, whether it be the CXP/skill bonus pools, the D'Kora Marauder, the point defence/isometric charge consoles, the space/ground warfare specialists, the mirror heavy raptor/Vo'Quv carrier, or the phased tetryon/polaron weapon packs. And whether [generic] your tastes are simpler (you open them for the DOff packs) or expensive (you want the ships), there will always be people willing to buy the keys and take their chances to open them. And that is what PWE want, a steady, regular stream of income. They don't care if lots of people make $10 purchases, a hundred people buying 10 master keys every three months is a more guaranteed income than ten people paying $25 for a new ship or $50 for a ship pack in the same time period. As you point out, sooner or later they're going to run out of canon ships to release, and if PWE want to maintain their income rates without lockboxes, and keep STO F2P, they would have to release Z-store ships at a much higher rate than they do now, and would probably need to make them character-specific rather than account-wide. We don't want that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 130
# 77
03-04-2013, 09:38 PM
Originally Posted by warbird001 View Post
I just cannot see a way for Cryptic to make this game any less of a joke then it has become. The best escort in the game is undeniably the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship which possess stats that are vastly superior to any other escort. As a result, PvP has become flooded with the ships and has suffered due to the fact that a lockbox or some Fleet ships are somewhat a nessacity now in PvP rather then an option.

In my opinion, the lockboxes have essentially gutted the game for sheer profit. Cryptic have sunk to the point where they will sell any ship regardless of canon standing for profit. This has to stop because if it doesn't, Cryptic will very soon run out of ships that they can exploit.
While I empathize with you OP, the fact remains that Cryptic/PWE need to pay for their staff and game, while maintaining the current F2P model. Free To Play doesn't actually mean the game is free. Players still have to financially support the game, but in a non-traditional, micro-transaction manner.

Lockboxes, as much as I absolutely hate them, are a great method for driving voluntary sales. While most Lockbox ship owners and collectors won't admit this, it costs a considerable amount of money to buy those ships, whether through "random" unlocks (including Lobi crystals), or the Exchange. These hard core type of players do this regularly. This is exactly what the F2P model relies on and these are the players being targeted.

Unfortunately, this model also requires ever more incentives to drive those sales and that is where some imbalance has crept into the game. Rather than just offer a new ship model with averaged stats, some ships have been given enhanced stats as an incentive to purchase. This has also become true of some C-Store ships with strong consoles and Fleet ships which require C-Store modules in return for better shield and hull. Once you start selling dragons, its hard to convince people that a mere horse is not a step down.

In all honestly, however, the only area where one player has a potential "advantage" over another in one of these ships is in PVP. In case you hadn't noticed, STO PVP has been the province of hard-core Min/Max players for years. If a casual player enters that realm without a kitted ship , a well trained crew and the right character skill spec, they should expect to be so much fodder for the regulars.

I personally turned my back on STO's broken PVP model years ago. The only time I will partake now is if the Fleet is desperate for a warm body. I recommend this same avoidance of STO's flawed PVP to any casual player not willing to secure the required premium gear and training.

In any other aspect of this game, non-Lockbox players are not disadvantaged by any of the equipment, or models that have been introduced. In fact, those Lockbox and C-Store sales have materially benefitted the non-Lockbox players by making the game free for their use.

I can live with that. Considering it is inlikely to change in the foreseeable future, perhaps, you should simply learn to adapt as well.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 607
# 78
03-04-2013, 11:13 PM

Wut, STO has PvP?!

Seriously though, STO PvP is dead, I think it's been like a year or so since I've last touched it anyway. xD
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 627
# 79
03-05-2013, 05:27 AM
Originally Posted by sabremeister1 View Post

The bug ship (aka Jem'Hadar attack ship) is a super glass-cannon.
Not, it's not (I actually have one and use it).

Put Borg Engines and Borg Deflector on it and you have that healing proc. Combined with the abilities of my engineering toon and my boff layout I'm practically invincible in a 1v1 fight. It's when the entire team gangs up on me that I have issues.

The 2-piece Borg bonus, cutting beam, Assimilated console, and Romulan Zero point console make it highly effective (the Mk XII Jem'Hadar shields also provide a resistance bonus to crew) I don't have a need any science consoles. Combined with 4x Polaron dual heavy cannons each with ACCx2 and the only reason one looses is because one did something stupid.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind

Last edited by lordagamemnonb5; 03-05-2013 at 05:30 AM.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,566
# 80
03-05-2013, 06:04 AM
As a result, the Federation and Klingon sides have become virtually indistinguishable from each other, taking away the uniqueness of both factions. Unfortunatly, the leaking of consoles of each vessel from the "other side" via the lockbox has not helped this issue either.
Lockbox ships are still a rare sight and have become more so after 10-consoel Fleet ships have been released. In a lot of cases they're getting outclassed by Fleet and C-Store ships, they're expensive and only character-wide unlocks. Sure there is a bit of a rise in lockbox ship sightings whenever a new lockbox comes out, but that has always ebbed down after a while.

You barely see Krenns, D'Koras, Galors or Weavers pop up in STFs or Fleet actions anymore.

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