Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 208
# 101
03-03-2013, 09:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by capnmanx View Post
So long as those can be said to exist in the Star Trek universe, then it follows that a time travel event is going to result in the creation of a new one; since 'Nero travelling back in time and destroying the USS Kelvin' is just adding a new possibility that will play out in its own separate quantum space. Equally, it follows that the 'original' timeline didn't involve time travelling humpback whales, Borg trying to prevent first contact with the Vulcans, or Data's head in a cave (unless a predestination paradox is a means of getting around that particular issue).
Star Trek time travel stories are riddled with paradoxes. This would not be the case if time travel worked according to the many worlds interpretation. Also, the crews from the different Treks seem to have a clear understanding of how time travel works, but they take great care not to contaminate the timeline. There's even a Department of Temporal Investigations in the 24th century, and a Temporal Integrity Commission in the 29th century.

As far as ''the rules set down in TNG Parallels'' go, afaik the many worlds interpretation was never mentioned in Star Trek before that episode and it was never mentioned after. The episode never linked it to time travel, either.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 887
# 102
03-03-2013, 10:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raj011 View Post
How is star trek enterprise arose from time travel? It is set in the prime verse of star trek and it was not created from time travel it self like the JJ-verse or the last episode of voyager. Enterprise is set after 100 years of cochrane warp flight and before TOS.
The sphere builders used time travel to build the spheres in Archer's time. They also influenced the Xindi to go to war with the Federation.

So the ENT series is an alternate universe.

*EDIT: I think the problem you might be having with this is related to the point of view. Archer didn't use time travel, however the universe he lived in was still altered by the sphere builders using time travel. The Federation doesn't need to use time travel leave the Prime Universe. Anyone using time travel to change the course of history, no matter who they are, will cause the entire universe and everyone living within it, to change.

Last edited by kamiyama317; 03-03-2013 at 10:32 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 655
# 103
03-03-2013, 10:40 AM
First of all; alternate universe and parralel universe can be used roughly interchangbly.

For example, the Mirror Universe is NEVER called that on screen. it's been refrered to as both parralel and alternate, depending on the writer and speaker.

Secondly, the events of First Contact, thanks to that ENT epsiode, are now understood to be a Predestination Paradox. The fact the Borg know about Earth is what's called a "Bootstrap Paradox", as are Kirk's Glasses, atleast accouriding to Kirk.



We know that the Hobus Event was based in Subspace, just by the fact of playing this game. This, plus the effect of the Black hole, does not discount a diminsional shift as well as temporal one, because the ST canon has not realy delt with the two at once, damaged subspace and the black hole gravity sligshot effect.

The writters specificly used parrales as an example for what they were going for. to say they ignored anything is BS. and besides, we're fighting about stuff people made up anyway. Things do what the writers of that week's epsiode want them to do. The person who wrote "Second Chances" obviously has a diffrent idea about how the transporter works than the one who wrote "Realm of Fear". Stuff changes all the time.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,514
# 104
03-03-2013, 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldarion79 View Post
There is no evidence that the Borg sphere altered the Prime Universe by being discovered by Arctic One. As a viewer, we were not given enough evidence that there is any changes at all. The Borg sphere was meant to be found in the Prime Universe.
Exactly. The drones in Regeneration were responsible for the message to the Delta Quadrant which had the cube en route to Earth in Q-Who (assisted by knowledge assimilated from the Hansens)

Predestination for the win
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,514
# 105
03-03-2013, 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by evendzhar View Post
Star Trek time travel stories are riddled with paradoxes. This would not be the case if time travel worked according to the many worlds interpretation.
I like to think there's a difference between either travelling back in time within one timestream, and correcting or making changes within it and travelling backwards in time and across a quantum barrier in the same action.

All time travel prior to JJTrek seems to be the first option, shown by changes/resolutions/predestination and anomalies like Sela... As the time travel in 09 was via a singularity, that difference could be responsible for the alternate timeline, rather than a modification of the original

Last edited by marcusdkane; 03-03-2013 at 11:35 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 152
# 106
03-03-2013, 12:23 PM
This thread makes the MST3K song go through my mind.

"If you're wondering how he eats and breathes and other science facts
Just repeat to yourself its just a show, you should really just relax...."
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,919
# 107
03-03-2013, 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by seekerkorhil View Post
Personally I don't believe in alternate realities because I don't believe in free will. Without free will there is no such thing as choice and without choice you don't generate alternate realities.

I believe in cause and effect. A condition in which free will is an illusion.
I missed this earlier, but I have to wonder what leap of logic brought you to such a belief. A lack of free will assumes predestination, that the path of our lives are predefined and we are just along for the ride. No effort or decision is required on our part as we are mere automatons following our defined path. Defined by whom, again with the invisible man in the sky? That is not how the universe works. Cause varies the choices made available to me and effect is consequences of those choices and although my choices and actions may have infinitely calculable predictable results, the choices are still mine to make, that is free will.
Alternate realities is taken from the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics which implies that all possible past and future events are real separated across an infinite number of universes existing in parallel with this one. This is current scientific thinking and it is not something you can simply deny because you don't understand or accept it.

Last edited by maxvitor; 03-03-2013 at 12:40 PM.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,787
# 108
03-03-2013, 12:51 PM
We need some Bill Nye to explain the possibilities of alternate relaities....
Joined Sept 09.

Curse you Archived Post.... you stole all my Ideas.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 645
# 109
03-03-2013, 10:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cedricophoff View Post
Im sorry but, all i can say is i hope JJ abrams burns in the fires of hell for all eternity.
Because wishing ill will upon people is TOTALLY the kind of thing the lord-savior Gene Roddenberry would want Star Trek fans to do.

Unbelievable how weird people get over this...


_________________________________________________

I'm still Romulus_Prime. Joined STO in January 2010.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 152
# 110
03-04-2013, 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kain9prime View Post
Because wishing ill will upon people is TOTALLY the kind of thing the lord-savior Gene Roddenberry would want Star Trek fans to do.

Unbelievable how weird people get over this...


You want to see the diehard trek-is-my-life crowd go bananas? Start a thread on any of the nonsense ideas Gene made in the first seasons of TNG. Seriously, you'll get the craziest threats. (happened to me once in the past. I found it hilarious, though)
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