Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 187
# 1 Qin Raptor build suggestions
03-05-2013, 11:23 AM
So I just scored a CHEAP Mirror Qin Raptor on the exchange for 750,000ec and thought it would be good on my Klingon tac toon, but I'm transferring from a Negh'Var plasma/quantum build. I'm not having a lot of problems with DPS, but I can't even last 10 seconds against a sphere on elite. Are there any good suggestions on shields, deflectors, and Engineering consoles. I am currently using

Supercooled Combat Impulse Engine XI (Breen)
Dielectric Oscillation Resilient Shield XI (Breen)
Positron Deflector Array XI
Ablative Hull Armor XI x2
Field Emitter XI

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Keep in mind that I play mostly Borg STFs. TY
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,203
# 2
03-05-2013, 11:53 AM
Sheesh, if you can't last 10 seconds against a Esphere in a neggy, a Qin aint gonna help.

I never used the breen stuff in an elite, I used the AEGIS (course the borg/omega/khg are MUCH better) with disruptor DHC's, get a field gen (I run a emitter array as well), tetrabernium, ablative and monotanium armour, borg console. The rest is up to you but I found that torps/torp consoles/torp DOFFs less than optimal on this ship vs cannons/turrets.
KBF Lord MalaK
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,001
# 3
03-05-2013, 02:17 PM
To be brutally honest here: the Qin is 5 times, maybe 10 times squishier than the Negh'Var. If you have trouble staying alive in that beast, the Qin won't solve that for you, most likely.

Anyway, for both, on a budget I'd go to the exchange for:
Positron Deflector mk xi/xii [shds][sif]x2
Covariant Shield Array mk xi/xii [cap][reg]
Efficient Impulse Engines (quest reward in an early mission)

Eng console: Neutronium Alloys. As much as possible.
Sci: Field generators and/or emitter arrays
Tac: energy-specific consoles for your energy weapons, and only those.

And a set of 3 DHC's + 1 torp (quantum, I'd suggest) in the front, all turrets in the back. I run all disruptor, but matter of taste, really.

Now, the Qin.
I'd suggest:

cmdr tac: tt1, crf1, apo1, crf3
lt cmdr tac: thy1, thy2, apo1 (or thy1, thy2, apb2 for PvE)
lt eng: epts1, rsp1
ens eng: epts1
lt sci: tb1/tss1, he2

2 purple conn officers for tac team cooldown reduction. If you don't have these: replace the thy1 with another tt1.

Pointy end at the enemy and you're good to go.

Now, I don't know what you did to that Negh'Var, but I'll include my tac build for reference' sake:

lt tac: tt1, crf1
cmdr eng: epts1, rsp1, dem2, aux2sif3
lt cmdr eng: eptw1, epts2, ewp1
ens eng: eptw1
lt sci: tb1, he2

That thing can tear through spheres and cubes no problem, in Elite STF's, and tank 3-5 spheres if need be. *shrug*

Happy hunting!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,203
# 4
03-05-2013, 02:29 PM
Hey Twam, do me a favor: lemme know what you have for defense numbers. MANY keep advising to stack those diminishing neutronium consoles and my math don't support replacing my current 3-some of uniqueness (armour) for those neut's.

Honestly, I'm curious to see if it works better, or is simply 'easier'.
KBF Lord MalaK
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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 5
03-05-2013, 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordmalak1 View Post
Hey Twam, do me a favor: lemme know what you have for defense numbers. MANY keep advising to stack those diminishing neutronium consoles and my math don't support replacing my current 3-some of uniqueness (armour) for those neut's.

Honestly, I'm curious to see if it works better, or is simply 'easier'.
I personally wouldn't carry more than 2 Neutronium consoles at a time, due to the diminishing returns. For a 3rd console, if I had room for one, I'd run either plasma-resist or monotanium for extra kinetic resist. Either would be idea in an STF, methinks.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,203
# 6
03-05-2013, 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingmaster View Post
I personally wouldn't carry more than 2 Neutronium consoles at a time, due to the diminishing returns. For a 3rd console, if I had room for one, I'd run either plasma-resist or monotanium for extra kinetic resist. Either would be idea in an STF, methinks.
Thanks, thats what I came to also. IF I had room for a 4th I might equip the neut but ATM it's too generic for my tastes.
KBF Lord MalaK
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,136
# 7
03-05-2013, 04:02 PM
I recently made a full ground spec tac and put him in a patrol escort just so he could do elite space for rep system, so I tried to spend as little as possible to make a viable elite stf build. Patrol escort is same layout as mirror Qin so this will work for you, and solos cubes on elite without dying, and nothing I bought for this ship cost much more then face value of the items. of course use better if possible, this is just to show how elite stf build can be made wiht paying only vendor price for most items.

4 Plasma DHC at least blue, sometimes purples can be bought cheap
3 plasma turrets green or blue

Positron deflector XI blue with shield bonuses preferbly
Impulse engines XI with aux spd and turn, or use efficient impulse engines
Resilient shield array mk XI with Cap and Pla

devices- subspace field mod, shield battery

eng consoles- 2 monotanium mk XI blue, 1 Electroceramic mk XI blue

Sci consoles- 2 Mk XI blue emitter array

tac consoles, 4 Mk XI green plasma infuser


Cmdr Tac- TT1, APD1, APO1, APO3
Lt Cmdr Tac- CRF1, CSV2

Lt Eng- EPTS1, Aux to SIF1
Ens Eng- EPTS1

Lt Sci- HE1, TSS2

DOffs- 2 Hazard system doffs, 3 shield distribution doffs, ( all at least green)

Just keep TT, EPTS1, and an attack pattern up at all times and you shouldnt die much, and don't slow down either, keep that def bonus maxed.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,001
# 8
03-06-2013, 01:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordmalak1 View Post
Hey Twam, do me a favor: lemme know what you have for defense numbers. MANY keep advising to stack those diminishing neutronium consoles and my math don't support replacing my current 3-some of uniqueness (armour) for those neut's.

Honestly, I'm curious to see if it works better, or is simply 'easier'.
All tested in Qo'nos system space, for ease of hopping between ships at the shipyard.

2 uncommon mk xi neutroniums on my B'rel:
Kinetic: 30,9%
Phaser: 31,6%
Disruptor: 31,6%
Plasma: 31,6%
Tetryon: 31,6%
Polaron: 31,6%
Antiproton: 30,7%

3 uncommon mk xi neutroniums on my mirror Qin:
Kinetic: 40,7%
Phaser: 37,9%
Disruptor: 37,9%
Plasma: 37,9%
Tetryon: 37,9%
Polaron: 37,9%
Antiproton: 37,2%

4 uncommon mk xi neutroniums on my Negh'Var (though I usually run 3 + 1 rare mk xi RCS):
Kinetic: 42,6%
Phaser: 43%
Disruptor: 43%
Plasma: 43%
Tetryon: 43%
Polaron: 43%
Antiproton: 42,4%

Went and shopped for some comparison materials for my Negh'Var.
Inherent resists, without consoles (no gear influences, all skill tree, I think):
Kinetic: 11,6%
Phaser: 12,7%
Disruptor: 12,7%
Plasma: 12,7%
Tetryon: 12,7%
Polaron: 12,7%
Antiproton: 11,2%

1 uncommon mk xi of: Monotanium, Ablative, Tetraburnium, Neutronium:
Kinetic: 37,4%
Phaser: 34,9%
Disruptor: 34,9%
Plasma: 43%
Tetryon: 43%
Polaron: 34,9%
Antiproton: 34,1%

1 uncommon mk xi of: Monotanium, Electroceramic, Diburnium, Parametallic:
Kinetic: 30,9%
Phaser: 31,6%
Disruptor: 31,6%
Plasma: 31,6%
Tetryon: 31,6%
Polaron: 31,6%
Antiproton: 30,7,1%

Ok, now I've got the materials and all, I might as well include the numbers for a Qin with 1 uncommon mk xi of: Monotanium, Ablative, Tetraburnium:
Kinetic: 35,1%
Phaser: 27,7%
Disruptor: 27,7%
Plasma: 37,9%
Tetryon: 37,9%
Polaron:27,7%
Antiproton: 26,7%

I originally went for this layout because it was easier and I generally flew ships with limited numbers of eng console slots, mostly sci ships, so blanket protection seemed the way to go, without room to go with a bunch of different ones. Also, like you said, I seemed common practice.

Now, some of these numbers do surprise me, I must say. Mosty antiproton: it's always a bit lower. Curious. I traced the different between energy and kinetic to my skill tree (I think): I have one less point in Armor Reinforcements than in Hull Plating (5 vs 6).

Going from these observations, stacking neutroniums still seems the way to go... I am, however, really curious about the Antiproton resist scores...
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 9
03-06-2013, 01:52 AM
The issue isn't slotting more than 1 neutronium (actually, more than 1 is a mistake since you need an EPS and an RCS console on this ship), it's your set.

You NEED a STF set in STFs. The breen stuff isn't going to be enough. I'm sorry but the honor guard set isn't an option, except on weird/unusual builds. And I don't recommend you one if you have survivability issues.

My raptor build was
3 DHC / 1 torp (chroniton for pvp, plasma for pve) + turrets
Full Honor guard set
EPS / RCS / neutronium
whatever energy type you have (only one)
Field generator / plasmonic leech (you may buy a photonic displacer console pack from the exchange though)

The bridge officer layout I used, adapted to the mirror raptor
TT 1 - CRF 1 - HY 3 - APO 3
TT 1 - CRF 1 - HY2 (or APO 1)
HE 1 - TSS
EPTS 1
EPTS 1 - RSP 1

As you can see, it's a torp heavy build since I used the honor guard set, giving +25% damage to torps. Heavy torps work pretty well in eSTFs, and not having higher cannon rapid fire skills allowed me not to have to deal with power issues. I've been able not to be forced to use emergency power to weapons and thus increasing my survivability. Of course swapping the CRF 1 and the HY 3 for a HY 2 / CRF 2 is perfectly acceptable.

This is in no way the ultimate build but there's no such things. It's just the choices I made you can embrace or not.

Last edited by diogene0; 03-06-2013 at 01:54 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,034
# 10
03-06-2013, 01:56 AM
Last time I read the forums regarding armor, I ran into an interesting article about diminishing returns on armor that seems to indicate they're not what they seem:

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...1&postcount=75
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