Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,742
# 61
03-06-2013, 09:09 AM
I dont think there will be a romulan faction , the people at cryptic cant be that out of touch with there own product, just look at their problems with a unfinished KDF

I think there may be a shared faction

Romulan refugee's with there ships and stuff on the /fed side

Romulan tal'shiar on the / KDF side

You buy a character at level 50 ! and have access to the ( Romulan ) ships and content but cant use it on your Fed or KDF characters just the romulan character

All other races could be done the same way Breen/Jem'Hadar Ect

Its a win win for cryptic they only have to make costumes and low level ships this way
Jellico....Engineer.....Stargazer KDF Tac
Saphire.. Science.....Ko'el Rom Kdf Tac
Leva........Tactical.....Mailu KDF Sci

JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,762
# 62
03-06-2013, 09:33 AM
Honestly, is there any fact that actually shows, that people want KDF more then they want the Romulans?

The only thing that showed a little fact about it was the poll, and there the romulans were more popular.

You know, there might be a lot of players about who would prefer the romulans over the klingons.

The poll (And you can cry foul that a single romulan fan or a PWE employee hacked it, and I still won't believe you) shows that more people want a romulan faction then improved KDF.

I know that a lot of my friends beside me feel like that, for them the romulans just simply have much more appeal then the klingons.

Maybe they like the romulan culture better, or the looks of their ships and uniforms, etc.
It does not matter, for Cryptic should do what the majority wants.
Why? The same reason Feds get more C-store ships. The better something sells, the more priority it should have.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 63
03-06-2013, 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpalelena View Post
Honestly, is there any fact that actually shows, that people want KDF more then they want the Romulans?

The only thing that showed a little fact about it was the poll, and there the romulans were more popular.

You know, there might be a lot of players about who would prefer the romulans over the klingons.

The poll (And you can cry foul that a single romulan fan or a PWE employee hacked it, and I still won't believe you) shows that more people want a romulan faction then improved KDF.

I know that a lot of my friends beside me feel like that, for them the romulans just simply have much more appeal then the klingons.

Maybe they like the romulan culture better, or the looks of their ships and uniforms, etc.
It does not matter, for Cryptic should do what the majority wants.
Why? The same reason Feds get more C-store ships. The better something sells, the more priority it should have.
That poll was completely cheatable and I proved it in the thread attached to the poll by poosting once as Roach and then immediatly posting as a new player in it to show how easily it could be manipulated.

Being that it could be so easily padded by anyone so sneaky to make it give false data on its numbers, yes the poll should only be used to garner that interest in the RSE existed - not that it was so overwhelming they should screw the KDF in being completed for what could be very faulty data.
Go look up the thread and see for yourself.

Complete the KDF as Dstahl promised before attempting to create the RSE playable faction is the honrable thing to do.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 64
03-06-2013, 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpalelena View Post
To be honest the statistic parts of your post is really not in favour of your argument.
It says the Klingons were in around 16,6% of the tv episodes.
Such a low percent seems to be .... exactly presumptious.
Now since we all love battlecruisers, you should not mention such mathematical values. Even if the movie percentage is much better.
The Romulans where in far less episodes over the years so how do they garner being created before the KDF is completed (as Dstahl said needs to be done before the RSE arrives)?
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 745
# 65
03-06-2013, 10:09 AM
Well, Ok, I did some digging, and it took a damd long time to find the info.

I went looking for Romulan player numbers for the Starfleet Command series.

SFC-II, and Orion Pirates in Dynaverse play.
Federation 60%, Klingons 15% Romulan 7% Gorn 5% Kizinti, 5%, Lyran 5% Hydran 3%
(Orion players in Dynaverse play of SFC-II:OP tended to be player second accounts as they didn't really have a direct interaction with the player empires)

In SFC-III
Federation 35% Klingon 25% Romulan 15%, Borg 25%

Yep, Rommies are sexy.. but not quite THAT sexy. Still, in the long term I would like to see a strong Romulan faction in STO. In SFC-III they were behind the Klingons for numbers, whio were in a dead heat with the Borg, with Federation having the largest numbers, but not by much.

The SFC-III numbers though are the ones I consider the most important. SFC-III in multiplayer dynaverse play was purely a territorial game. Most fights were one on one, but the game had a mechanic where other players could warp in in the middle of a fight.
It tended to be wild and wolly. In the single player game only the Federation, Klingon, and Romulans had a story arc. The Borg were strictly reserved for monster play in multiplayer.

It looks at this point that even if the KDF does not get its polishing this May, it IS going to happen before the Romulans are introduced. I suspect if the KDF numbers don't come up, it is likely the Romulans will get introduced as a player faction before the massive change that territorial PvP would intoduce gets added. The reason they would get introduced would be to dulute Federation numbers. KDF would loose some players to RSE faction, but the majority would come from the Federation. In multoplayer PvP the KDF and RSE would tend to be allied against the Federation, even though in the games historical universe they would decidedly unfriendly to each other. Thats going to happen because both sides even together would still be massivly outnumbered by the federation players.. but with the percentage of PvP player being much larger in the KDF and RSE factions there would be a greater chance for overall parity in actuall PvP. Players in multiplayer are not that dumb.. the RSE and KDF would ally. If they don't the Federation either taked them each down in isolation, gaining what ever faction benifit this provides, or to prevent it, we dont have persistant territorial PvP but some sort of expandeded arena combat over what we have now.

What we won't have is a meta "War" game.. just a score board, which is not something thats going to have any draw what so ever for the non PvP crowd. Call me spoiled by the other war games I've played over the decades, but abstract score board type player combat just isn't as satisfying as getting inthere and taking territory, and then having to fight to hold it. Non combat elements could be incorporated to involve the PvE crowd.. Diplomacy, non combat missions. PvE combat missions, and PvEvP opjective missions.

Sooner the KDF is done, the sooner that STO can move on to bigger and better things.


Khemaraa sends
Release 8.5 "STO The Next Generation"

Let the happy old bug stomping commence, along with refinement toward enhancing each factions play experience!
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 745
# 66
03-06-2013, 10:36 AM
P.S> feel free to take the percentage I presented with BIG grain of salt.. my numbers were rounded off significantly, and are ONLY provided to give a general feel, which is all statistic gan ever give you. Ones conclusions are only as good as ones base numbers are tobegin with.. ...and if ones base numbers are flawed.. well, then the whole premis is flawed.. happenes in statistical atudies all the time *SIGH*


Khemaraa sends..

P.P.S.
The one bit that is utterly true though is only a very tiny sub percentage of STO players actually post to the forums. All MMO's have this issue of getting reliable feedback from the user base. Some MMO's regularly poll the players In game (NCSoft for example) But the Studios/Developers that do this are a distinct minority.
Release 8.5 "STO The Next Generation"

Let the happy old bug stomping commence, along with refinement toward enhancing each factions play experience!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,275
# 67
03-06-2013, 10:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldkhemaraa View Post
Well, Ok, I did some digging, and it took a damd long time to find the info.

I went looking for Romulan player numbers for the Starfleet Command series.

SFC-II, and Orion Pirates in Dynaverse play.
Federation 60%, Klingons 15% Romulan 7% Gorn 5% Kizinti, 5%, Lyran 5% Hydran 3%
(Orion players in Dynaverse play of SFC-II:OP tended to be player second accounts as they didn't really have a direct interaction with the player empires)

In SFC-III
Federation 35% Klingon 25% Romulan 15%, Borg 25%

Yep, Rommies are sexy.. but not quite THAT sexy. Still, in the long term I would like to see a strong Romulan faction in STO. In SFC-III they were behind the Klingons for numbers, whio were in a dead heat with the Borg, with Federation having the largest numbers, but not by much.

The SFC-III numbers though are the ones I consider the most important. SFC-III in multiplayer dynaverse play was purely a territorial game. Most fights were one on one, but the game had a mechanic where other players could warp in in the middle of a fight.
It tended to be wild and wolly. In the single player game only the Federation, Klingon, and Romulans had a story arc. The Borg were strictly reserved for monster play in multiplayer.

<snip>

Khemaraa sends
It may help to remind some that in other games the Plasma torps were a major appeal as they were among the most powerful available, and also the least useful because they took so long to arm, required much more power to launch and had a significantly shorter range- NONE of those qualities are similarity modeled in STO. In STO the plasma torpedo moves slowly and is also the second least powerful torpedo in the game but is otherwise the same as every other torpedo.

Ya, I used to play a rommie on dyna until the futility of it sunk in.
KBF Lord MalaK
Awoken Dead

You're gonna upgrade my Chel Grett for FREE but charge me $30 to upgrade my Kamarag ?

Last edited by lordmalak1; 03-06-2013 at 11:37 AM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,986
# 68
03-06-2013, 11:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jellico1 View Post
I dont think there will be a romulan faction , the people at cryptic cant be that out of touch with there own product, just look at their problems with a unfinished KDF

I think there may be a shared faction

Romulan refugee's with there ships and stuff on the /fed side

Romulan tal'shiar on the / KDF side

You buy a character at level 50 ! and have access to the ( Romulan ) ships and content but cant use it on your Fed or KDF characters just the romulan character
Honestly, that would suck on so many epic levels that it's not fun even discussing it.
The Romulan fans deserve to play in their own faction and have their own agenda. Imagine their dissapointment if this happens.
I stay by my assumption that a RSE developed at the level of the KDF is a far better choice then to tag along Rommies to the Fed. and the KDF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpalelena View Post
To be honest the statistic parts of your post is really not in favour of your argument.
It says the Klingons were in around 16,6% of the tv episodes.
Such a low percent seems to be .... exactly presumptious.
Now since we all love battlecruisers, you should not mention such mathematical values. Even if the movie percentage is much better.
It depends on how you read it.
You mentioned the percentage not going in favour of Roach's argument.

One can see it as this - In a human/Federation centered series, out of something like 200 (or more) alien species, Klingons were present in roughly 1/5 of the series with their dedicated episodes. Doesn't sound so bad now, does it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpalelena View Post
Honestly, is there any fact that actually shows, that people want KDF more then they want the Romulans?

The only thing that showed a little fact about it was the poll, and there the romulans were more popular.

You know, there might be a lot of players about who would prefer the romulans over the klingons.

The poll (And you can cry foul that a single romulan fan or a PWE employee hacked it, and I still won't believe you) shows that more people want a romulan faction then improved KDF.

I know that a lot of my friends beside me feel like that, for them the romulans just simply have much more appeal then the klingons.

Maybe they like the romulan culture better, or the looks of their ships and uniforms, etc.
It does not matter, for Cryptic should do what the majority wants.
Why? The same reason Feds get more C-store ships. The better something sells, the more priority it should have.
It's natural for people to desire something new, something unexplored, something that is yet to come. Hence the big interest of a Romulan faction. I'm speaking globaly, I know that the core RSE fans are fighting their own fight for the right to play as their favourite faction, they have done so always in the past and will continue in the future. Just as the KDF core.
But, it's not surprising at all for the players to have a vast interest in a whole new faction in STO, hell, that would be the biggest content injection in STO ever!

Everyone will join to try it out, but after a while and the initial passion and curiosity calms down, I assume that many Feds. will return to their Vestas, Oddys, Kumaris & Defiants.
I believe that if we ever have fully developed KDF & RSE in STO, when all the initial drama of a new faction is settled, the number of players would be something like roughly 40-50% Fed., and 25-30% RSE & KDF each.

I have always been a strong supporter of a Romulan faction in STO, even if I don't plan of playing it. But the fact being is that there already is a Klingon faction in STO. I just want the KDF to be provided with continuous content/ships/uniforms even if they are at slower rate. Just don't want to see KDF being killed off in favour of RSE.

P.S.Oh, and Khemaraa, sorry, but I can't agree with you on RSE & KDF players grouping to fight Feds.

The way I plan it is to enter a war zone under battlecloak, drink raktajino and observe your everyday Fed. messing around in his ship. Then when a Romulan Warbird decloaks and takes the Fed. by surprise, while they're engaged it's time to buff up - decloak and it's bye bye Rommie time!
Might as well give the Feds. reason to like Klingons more than Romulans!
Show your support for the Revamped Galaxy Class Exploration Cruiser here!
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 69
03-06-2013, 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordmalak1 View Post
It may help to remind some that in other games the Plasma torps were a major appeal as they were among the most powerful available, and also the least useful because they took so long to arm, required much more power to launch and had a significantly shorter range- NONE of those qualities are similarity modeled in STO. In STO the plasma torpedo moves slowly and is also the second least powerful torpedo in the game but is otherwise the same as every other torpedo.

Ya, I used to play a rommie on dyna until the futility of it sunk in.
Yeah, I never played the dynaverse stuff (wish I had, tbh), but I never even liked playing Romulans in the PvE/campaign. Romulan ships always seemed to have weaker shields, weaker disruptors, and the plasma torps were too unreliable. They were just as inaccurate as other torps, but had the added disadvantage of taking so long to recharge.

I'm torn as to whether I liked Fed or Klingon more. I liked the Fed campaign more (bigger battles), but the Klingon ships were cool.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 70
03-06-2013, 02:01 PM
And, regarding the RSE faction concept in general: I feel the best approach would be to keep RSE as end-game only, something that probably should've been done with the KDF at the start until Cryptic was ready to advance it further.

End-game only means levels 40-50, 5-6 ships (two of each 'class' and maybe their own carrier?), 1-2 Romulan-themed story arcs, and access to the universal content (including STFs and fleet missions).

It'd be a lot of work, but I feel that would be viable and an acceptable bone to throw at the RSE fans.

Trying to create a Romulan faction as a complete faction would be a disaster of KDF proportions.
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