Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 269
# 91
02-22-2013, 03:51 PM
I'll admit that I just don't get why you'd randomly generate the abilities on a grand total of 6 borderline unique BOFFs.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 41
# 92
02-24-2013, 10:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
Why would it remain so? The ones we already owned were changed with the recent patch (trait ability and now much they received). I do not think it would be impossible to fix the ones that have already been purchased.
Quote:
The fact that there are no officers with Basic Romulan Operative is also a consequence of random generation with a small sample size. We can "fix" this by just adding some more possible trait combinations to the store. This won't impact anything that's already been purchased - we can just add more options that people can buy. No ETA on this; it's on the radar, though.
The above suggests that they don't intend to fix the useless Boffs, just add more useful ones at some future time.

If I've read it wrong, misunderstood or will be proven wrong by devs changing their minds about their approach, I'll be all the happier for it.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
# 93
02-28-2013, 07:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by archoncryptic View Post
I've been investigating these issues, and I have a few answers for you.

These officers were intentionally given slightly better trait distributions than a standard Bridge Officer of their Quality level.

Bridge Officers have four traits. Normally, they are laid out as follows:

Green - 1-2 Basic, 2-3 Standard
Blue - 1 Basic, 2 Standard, 1 Superior
Purple - 2 Standard, 2 Superior

There are some exceptions to this.

Since the Romulan officers require reputation, unlocks, etc. to purchase, they were given slightly "better" layouts, as follows:

Green - 1 Basic, 3 Standard
Blue - 2 Standard, 2 Superior
Purple - 4 Superior

In addition, these Romulan Bridge Officers deviate from normal Bridge Officers in that rather than having a standard racial ability, they have either one of the levels of Subterfuge *or* Covert Operative.

These traits were assigned randomly; the fact that Tactical BOFFs ended up with Romulan Operative was a consequence of random allocation with a small sample size. This is also why males and females have slightly different layouts; this wasn't to make some better than others, they just have different randomly assigned traits (but should have the same number of "points", so to speak).

The fact that there are no officers with Basic Romulan Operative is also a consequence of random generation with a small sample size. We can "fix" this by just adding some more possible trait combinations to the store. This won't impact anything that's already been purchased - we can just add more options that people can buy. No ETA on this; it's on the radar, though.

Another confusing factor is that the quality level of these BOFFs might appear to be higher after you purchase them. For example, if you buy a blue Romulan BOFF, this will appear to be Purple in your roster - this is because the system determines that they have a number of trait points in the "Purple" range and displays them that way. Obviously, this is pretty confusing, and I'm looking for a way to fix it without nerfing the existing blue officers.

The trait tooltips being inconsistent is a bug, plain and simple. That's already fixed internally, and hopefully it should get to players soon.

When and if we put more Romulan BOFFs in the game, we'll be much clearer about how they're supposed to work. My apologies for the confusion.
Archon: Could you guys also make a sweep pass at doffs/boffs in general?

Doffs :

we need a way to know which doff can only be equipped once of. It really sucks to get 3 purple doffs at high cost and then the system tell you that you can only equip one. There is no indicator anywhere that only one of this doff type can be equipped.

we also need a way to tell the exchange to only look up faction-matching doffs. As KDF its extremely annoying to find a KDF doff since there are hardly many and its a needle in a haystack search. I mean heck, couldn't you guys just add 'FED' and 'KDF' to each doff name at the start "KDF DOFFNAME" and 'FED DOFFNAME" so we can at least search by name quickly?

Boffs:
We need tooltips to display the exact bonus amount the boff traits give the player when in the exchange or doff-mart purchase window.

ground combat: why do boffs with guns run to melee range of the enemy? KDF does it, fed boffs dont. Hilariously, if the KDF boffs have blades in hand they wont run to the enemy to hit it. they'll stay in range. WTF?
http://media.tumblr.com/160cacdb395f8340dac90864182ebe16/tumblr_inline_mx9yxhItkb1qg9pkt.jpg
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,123
# 94
03-04-2013, 08:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
I should point out that the values attributed to the type of Operative (Basic Operative, Operative, and Superior Operative) appear to be correct.

That is to say, the Romulan Operative that is (incorrectly) associated with the Uncommon Romulan Tactical BOFF gives a value of 1.5%. Since there are no Basic Romulan Operatives (which should be Uncommon), I can't say if it's 1%. I believe, when I looked at the Male Rare Romulan Tactical BOFF, the value was 2%.

Again, it sounds like the Basic Operative got bumped off and all the higher traits were bumped down (again, incorrectly) to the next lower rarity.

This is probably contributing to why the Very Rare Tactical Officers have Subterfuge instead of Superior Operative.

It seems like the only correct Romulan Tactical Officer is the Female Rare Tactical BOFF with her Romulan Operative trait (even though the Male has the Superior Operative, incorrectly of course).
Any update on this? Again, this seems like the traits were shifted so that the basic Operative would be on a common Romulan tactical BOFF. Perhaps you were considering making one, then decided just to start off with Uncommon? Since there are no common Romulan tactical BOFFs, we can't verify that for sure.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 95
03-04-2013, 10:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by archoncryptic View Post
I've been investigating these issues, and I have a few answers for you.

These officers were intentionally given slightly better trait distributions than a standard Bridge Officer of their Quality level.

Bridge Officers have four traits. Normally, they are laid out as follows:

Green - 1-2 Basic, 2-3 Standard
Blue - 1 Basic, 2 Standard, 1 Superior
Purple - 2 Standard, 2 Superior

There are some exceptions to this.

Since the Romulan officers require reputation, unlocks, etc. to purchase, they were given slightly "better" layouts, as follows:

Green - 1 Basic, 3 Standard
Blue - 2 Standard, 2 Superior
Purple - 4 Superior

In addition, these Romulan Bridge Officers deviate from normal Bridge Officers in that rather than having a standard racial ability, they have either one of the levels of Subterfuge *or* Covert Operative.

These traits were assigned randomly; the fact that Tactical BOFFs ended up with Romulan Operative was a consequence of random allocation with a small sample size. This is also why males and females have slightly different layouts; this wasn't to make some better than others, they just have different randomly assigned traits (but should have the same number of "points", so to speak).

The fact that there are no officers with Basic Romulan Operative is also a consequence of random generation with a small sample size. We can "fix" this by just adding some more possible trait combinations to the store. This won't impact anything that's already been purchased - we can just add more options that people can buy. No ETA on this; it's on the radar, though.

Another confusing factor is that the quality level of these BOFFs might appear to be higher after you purchase them. For example, if you buy a blue Romulan BOFF, this will appear to be Purple in your roster - this is because the system determines that they have a number of trait points in the "Purple" range and displays them that way. Obviously, this is pretty confusing, and I'm looking for a way to fix it without nerfing the existing blue officers.

The trait tooltips being inconsistent is a bug, plain and simple. That's already fixed internally, and hopefully it should get to players soon.

When and if we put more Romulan BOFFs in the game, we'll be much clearer about how they're supposed to work. My apologies for the confusion.


Well that is confusing. Lol.



Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
Any update on this? Again, this seems like the traits were shifted so that the basic Operative would be on a common Romulan tactical BOFF. Perhaps you were considering making one, then decided just to start off with Uncommon? Since there are no common Romulan tactical BOFFs, we can't verify that for sure.



Yeah I was pretty disappointed, it was my own fault but I made the mistake of purchasing the VR T3 Rom Tac BOFFs without verifying that they do not in fact offer a Critical hit % increase.



I don't know if there is some realistic way for Archon to go through and do a pass on these to have them make a bit more sense.

For starters the Tac BOFF line have their special abilities kind of all over the place, I wish there was a clear progression of:

T1 = 1% crit > T2 = 1.5% crit > T3 = 2%

Seeing as we don't want to nerf the T2 male, perhaps instead:

T1 = 1% crit > T2 > 2% crit > T3 = 2.25% crit

That makes the T2 the sweet spot for the average player, and gives the "I must have every last ounce of POWER!!" guys like me a reason to spend huge amounts of dilithium for a relatively smaller increase.



On top of this, I think the Sci / Eng lines should offer some kind of benefits for space on ships that do not have a cloak.

Or barring that, a damage bonus for using MES as well as Cloak.




My ideal would have been:

Tac = CritH/CritD bonuses
Sci = Cloaking Detection & Stealth bonus
Eng = CD Reduction & Damage boost for Cloaking/MES/Stealth Effects

Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,123
# 96
03-04-2013, 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
For starters the Tac BOFF line have their special abilities kind of all over the place, I wish there was a clear progression of:

T1 = 1% crit > T2 = 1.5% crit > T3 = 2%

Seeing as we don't want to nerf the T2 male, perhaps instead:

T1 = 1% crit > T2 > 2% crit > T3 = 2.25% crit
It's not nerfing the T2 male, it's correcting it.

As I said before, only the T2 Female Romulan Tactical Boff is correct (or, working as intended). Everything else needs to be corrected.

Here's what it looks like now:
Male: t1 = 1.5%, t2 = 2%, t3 = no operative trait
Female: t1 = 1.5%, t2 = 1.5%, t3 = no operative trait

Here's what it should look like:
Male: t1 = 1%, t2 = 1.5%, t3 = 2%
Female: t1 = 1%, t2 = 1.5%, t3 = 2%

They already adjusted the trait values and changed the trait name in the patch weeks ago. I don't see why it would be a problem to change the values of the BOFFs again. It's especially easy, because the traits are set (similar to the unique BOFFs that could be obtained as accolade and mission rewards).
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 201
# 97
03-06-2013, 03:35 PM
To reiterate, not all Romulan Tactical BOFFs are supposed to have Romulan Operative. That's intentional, and that's not being changed.

We *might* put more Romulan BOFFs on the store at some point, so that people can get the trait combinations they want - such as greens with Basic Romulan Operative, purples with Superior Romulan Operative, etc.

Adjusting the existing BOFFs would be unfair to people who bought the BOFFs for the powers they already have. While Subterfuge isn't as popular as Romulan Operative in the forum community, that doesn't mean someone didn't buy a BOFF with the intent of getting the Subterfuge trait.

Moreover, Subterfuge has some changes coming that should make it more generally appealing - I think that will alleviate a large part of this issue.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,123
# 98
03-06-2013, 03:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by archoncryptic View Post
To reiterate, not all Romulan Tactical BOFFs are supposed to have Romulan Operative. That's intentional, and that's not being changed.

We *might* put more Romulan BOFFs on the store at some point, so that people can get the trait combinations they want - such as greens with Basic Romulan Operative, purples with Superior Romulan Operative, etc.

Adjusting the existing BOFFs would be unfair to people who bought the BOFFs for the powers they already have. While Subterfuge isn't as popular as Romulan Operative in the forum community, that doesn't mean someone didn't buy a BOFF with the intent of getting the Subterfuge trait.

Moreover, Subterfuge has some changes coming that should make it more generally appealing - I think that will alleviate a large part of this issue.
This doesn't make any sense and is counter to what was stated.

At present, there is NO Boff with Basic Romulan Operative. There used to be a Basic Covert Operative. But, when you made the change a few weeks ago, it was changed to Romulan Operative. If there is not meant to be a Basic Romulan Operative, why state that there is and give the stats on what it is supposed to be?

And, you already changed the nature of Operative to the people that already purchased it when you reduced critical hit and increased critical severity on the Operative trait. You may as well fix it as it was intended (or what the scale-to-rarity was set to). I'm sure most people bought the Very Rare Tactical BOFF in hopes of getting the Superior Operative trait, not reading the traits before purchasing. Likewise, I'm sure people bought the Female Rare tactical BOFF expecting it to have the same trait as the male version for the same reason. Are you not intending to fix this as well?

If you're going to try change Subterfuge, fix them both by combining the two traits into one and impose a stack limit to 3.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 437
# 99
03-06-2013, 05:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by archoncryptic View Post
To reiterate, not all Romulan Tactical BOFFs are supposed to have Romulan Operative. That's intentional, and that's not being changed.

We *might* put more Romulan BOFFs on the store at some point, so that people can get the trait combinations they want - such as greens with Basic Romulan Operative, purples with Superior Romulan Operative, etc.

Adjusting the existing BOFFs would be unfair to people who bought the BOFFs for the powers they already have. While Subterfuge isn't as popular as Romulan Operative in the forum community, that doesn't mean someone didn't buy a BOFF with the intent of getting the Subterfuge trait.

Moreover, Subterfuge has some changes coming that should make it more generally appealing - I think that will alleviate a large part of this issue.
This is a very sexist statement, your basically saying regardless of the male and female of the same quality level are not the same because the males are better, so why purchase a female for the same amount of dilithium if shes going to do less, suggest rethinking your current stand on this situation before even more flaming ensues.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 301
# 100
03-06-2013, 05:18 PM
While I agree with everything Shookyang is saying I do disagree on one point. I dont think there should be a limit with them. We can run five of any trait BOs we want so if someone wants to run five Rommies then they should be allowed. Otherwise, I agree with everything.

I was saddened when I was compelled to buy the male rare when I really wanted the female for my all girl crew....

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