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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,203
# 21
03-08-2013, 07:53 AM
Quote:
As much as I like the Kamarag, it's still another battle cruiser is all.
Ya, it's a real beauty but I can't bring myself to outfit it much less use it. Can't they do something to it to make it NOT a healboat ? I'd love to use it but it's so disfunctional outside of the team healer role.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,228
# 22
03-08-2013, 09:44 AM
Personally I think that the Negh'Var will turn out to be a "slide-of-hand" on the part of Al.

It takes no effort, unless it comes out complete remastered as a unique design.

I can hope for the latter, but I expect a stock standard ship with some minor adjustments. Perhaps Cryptic ship designers just cannot conceptualize truly magnificent KDF ships.

KDF and any alien ships in Star Trek for that matter, just require more thought and concept than the stock-standard toilet-seat design of the feds.

Last edited by drkfrontiers; 03-08-2013 at 09:48 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,665
# 23
03-09-2013, 01:06 AM
One thing I don't think many have hit on though is that with the Negh'var there are 5 variants of it but this game only has two version of the original from its first release. Notably though because of Kitbash the Regent model and the Endgame model are virtually the same except for those 2 had something similar to the DBB's we have in the game but the 2 DS9 versions were more like a super cannon. Some could say well you have the autocannon on bortasqu' but like one dev stated when bortasqu' was released it was not designed to use cannons but one of the console powers is a cannon go figure.

I just hope some thought goes into this ship coming up if it indeed is coming out. The bortasqu' started as some hope for the KDF but in the end it was a huge failure only benefitting the kdf players as a storage ship. Here is to hoping they have learned from their mistakes and will surprise me
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,619
# 24
03-09-2013, 04:17 AM
At this news, I have only the following commentary:

I am underwhelmed. Honestly underwhelmed. Apparently Cryptic's designers feel that in a glutted market, yet another ****** cruiser is just the ticket-as if we weren't already swimming in cruisers on the store-lists, in a game where they've built the mechanics to favour ESCORTS over all other classes in every form of content available, including PvP AND STF's.

To quote General Martok's forward to the Haynes Klingon Bird of Prey Owner's Workshop Manual:

"...The Negh'Var reflects nothing about me or my approach to battle...The Vor'cha-Class may be capable of Absorbing an attack by an entire enemy fleet of warbirds and any KNOWN alien Battlecruiser. My preference is to Evade such an attack, not absorb it, and return...from completely unexpected coordinates to neutralize the attack with minimal damage to my flagship and the Fleet. The [b]Vor'cha is incapable of such tactics, thereby allowing massive collateral damage while awaiting the cessation of the alien attack before turning to neutralize the enemy ship."[/i]

What part of the concept of NOT standing nearly-still while 5-console DHC toting Fedscorts hammer your hull apart do the Devs fail to understand? Spike goes right to hull points, it's not pressure damage (a mythical creature of the distant past-invalidated by the rise of various Rep passives and such that rendered everything BUT the DHC a waste of space...)

I'm not interested in flying a punching bag suitable only for helping fill the "good day to die" mission. Devs, I want a fighting ship.

Until one is offered, I'm afraid I'll be passing on the slow-moving punching bags, thanks.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."

Last edited by patrickngo; 03-09-2013 at 04:21 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,626
# 25
03-09-2013, 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
At this news, I have only the following commentary:

I am underwhelmed. Honestly underwhelmed. Apparently Cryptic's designers feel that in a glutted market, yet another ****** cruiser is just the ticket-as if we weren't already swimming in cruisers on the store-lists, in a game where they've built the mechanics to favour ESCORTS over all other classes in every form of content available, including PvP AND STF's.

To quote General Martok's forward to the Haynes Klingon Bird of Prey Owner's Workshop Manual:

"...The Negh'Var reflects nothing about me or my approach to battle...The Vor'cha-Class may be capable of Absorbing an attack by an entire enemy fleet of warbirds and any KNOWN alien Battlecruiser. My preference is to Evade such an attack, not absorb it, and return...from completely unexpected coordinates to neutralize the attack with minimal damage to my flagship and the Fleet. The [b]Vor'cha is incapable of such tactics, thereby allowing massive collateral damage while awaiting the cessation of the alien attack before turning to neutralize the enemy ship."[/i]

What part of the concept of NOT standing nearly-still while 5-console DHC toting Fedscorts hammer your hull apart do the Devs fail to understand? Spike goes right to hull points, it's not pressure damage (a mythical creature of the distant past-invalidated by the rise of various Rep passives and such that rendered everything BUT the DHC a waste of space...)

I'm not interested in flying a punching bag suitable only for helping fill the "good day to die" mission. Devs, I want a fighting ship.

Until one is offered, I'm afraid I'll be passing on the slow-moving punching bags, thanks.
you say that as if kdf cruisers arent practically escorts already. load them up with DHCs, slot a hold, get 3 tech doffs and 2 copies of AtB, get tet glider an a few flow cap consoles, get DEM3, and go kill escorts at thier own game. i can kill bugs in my fleet tkinga and fleet kamarang. before that i had used the vorcha R and negvar with that setup, it worked on both of those well too.

the battle cruiser does not have the problems the fed cruiser has, its a ship that can serve any purpse you want it too, so the more battle cruisers with the remaining station niches fed ships already have are a very welcome addition to me.

before long, i bet there will be fleet tier 3 and 4 raptors, 1 having the MVAM station setup, the other having the armatige station setup. the kdf will get filled out, those would be easy ships to make.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 37
# 26
03-09-2013, 07:09 PM
When it comes to ships that are in game being released as playable, I would personally like to see more Fek'ihri ships make the Z-Store cut. In fact on the heels of an widely successful Andorian escort with five fore weapons slots, why not take the in game K'Norr Escort and give it similar BO/Console slotting. It's a nice looking ship, I'd buy it.

As a console incentive maybe redo the Phase Shift generator so you can simply turn it on and off like a general cloak unless you fire, at which point it goes back to the 10 second effect countdown and then has the three minute cool off. And if they didn't want to just recycle a console with an effect, maybe do another one and make it a console set whose effect changes the one that comes with the Kar'fi. Or if they were uncomfortable with doing the five fore weapons slots for fear of "backlash" from the Feds about how "unfair" it is we get something too, why not make it an Escort Carrier?

You could have the hanger item it comes with be Tortured Souls and you need to own the ship to get them. I'd pay for it.

Last edited by generalkras; 03-09-2013 at 07:13 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,619
# 27
03-09-2013, 08:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
you say that as if kdf cruisers arent practically escorts already. load them up with DHCs, slot a hold, get 3 tech doffs and 2 copies of AtB, get tet glider an a few flow cap consoles, get DEM3, and go kill escorts at thier own game. i can kill bugs in my fleet tkinga and fleet kamarang. before that i had used the vorcha R and negvar with that setup, it worked on both of those well too.

the battle cruiser does not have the problems the fed cruiser has, its a ship that can serve any purpse you want it too, so the more battle cruisers with the remaining station niches fed ships already have are a very welcome addition to me.

before long, i bet there will be fleet tier 3 and 4 raptors, 1 having the MVAM station setup, the other having the armatige station setup. the kdf will get filled out, those would be easy ships to make.
How can I put this so you understand my position..?

Blow all my Doff stations and fiddle bridge officers to turn a Cruiser into a half-assed escort?

Looking at the opportunity cost, at best it ends up mediocre-at worst, it ends up a situation where a similar setup, in a proper light ship, STILL OUT PERFORMS IT.

"Similar" being "Not exactly the same" but close enough to be decisive in a match. A similar AtB/Doff/etc arrangement on, say, a Raptor, Hegh'ta, or B'rel can turn with a Bugship and stay out of his frontal arc-you're not going to do that with a cruiser, not even a "Battle Cruiser".

Base turn rate on a Negh's 9, base turn on a Vorcha/Vor'cha variant is 10, those attack patterns run off that base turn rate-so putting that stackup you suggest on something with a GOOD turn-rate (i.e. 15 or more) nets a stronger positive gain-which is what I've been watching with Kumari, Defiant, Bugship and similar users in the Pugging ques. (watching tooltips is neat, you learn a lot-the guy who's keeping APO up with no down-time for instance...or seeing the counters running on how many energy types that Defiant's resisting simultaneously. Fascinating...)

(along with the Elite fleet shields which are hitting faster for the Fed fleets than they are for ours across the board, but that's irrelevant here).

But the real 'gap' in coverage for the KDF isn't in the cruiser scene. We have GREAT cruisers, Feds have to get the Chel'Ghett to match what we can get at Brigadier in terms of Cruisers, and frankly, our Fleet/C-store versions are strong runners (well, except maybe the Oddy-clone Bortas...)

Certainly there are KDF players who quite like Cruisers. I don't, I want turn rate, I want speed, I want to be able to apply firepower without spending all my Duty officer slots to try and bump my turn rate up to something viable when I'm facing Three FedScorts and two Sci's and one of the 'scorts is a JHAS while the other two came out of the fifty dollar box set along with both sci ships (say, Oddy Sci and Vesta, for an easy example...)

Currently I'm doing this mostly in a Hegh'ta I got when I levelled to 50, because the B'rel's just toast in Arenas and I'm trying to develop my Engie and my sci toons to the same level as my 'main' tac-toon.

Please understand...I TRIED to like Battlecruisers. REally, I did. I tried to like them in my Engineer toon and my Tac both. I TRIED to like not having a Commander Tactical station with APO3, or CRF3, most often being restricted to a Lt. Tac and an ensign and relying on Duty Officers to try and make up the difference.

I NEED my attack patterns, I NEED my turn rate, I NEED to not-be-crippled because the other side's got more movement than I can squeeze out of the chassis.

I NEED to be able to beat them on the Position game. Cruisers, even BATTLE Crusers, don't do that except against other Cruisers-and increasingly, I'm not SEEING whole cruiser teams on the other side, not even in Ker'rat.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."
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