Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,282
# 31
03-11-2013, 05:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
A couple of questions:

1) How much -resistance do these do?
2) How much "damage" to shields to these do?
3) Are these properly resisted by flow caps?

1) 5% per Mine (... that seems a bit higher than necessary)
2) This isn't easy to answer, as it has a large number of variables involved. But, as an estimate, it looks like it's about on par with 40% of an equivalent-level Photon Mine.
3) No! Shocking! They were not properly tagged when created, so our power system didn't know to affect them.

I'll include a fix to #3 when I get time to update the tooltips with better info.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Systems Design
"Play smart!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me
Kurland here...
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 32
03-11-2013, 05:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
I know that Shield Drains report poorly to the combat log, and in our tooltips unless manually overridden, so it's easy to see how some misconceptions could become accepted as truths.

But let me squash this one once and for all: Tachyon Mines do not apply "Negative Regen."

They act exactly the same as Charged Particle Burst. In fact, the data is a direct clone of CPB Rank 1, except that instead of disabling cloaks it applies a Shield Resistance debuff.

Actually, now that I look closer at it, the value of the shield drain on Tachyon Mines is actually about 30% lower than that of CPB 1. But, instead of a single hit, you get multiple mines, each of which apply their full effect.

I'll work on getting the tooltips for these items updated. But I wanted to clarify their operation. There's no such thing as an item that inflicts a Negative Regeneration. It's all Healing, Draining, HoTs and DoTs.
This doesn't explain why players (including myself) have had multiple shield-filling powers do nothing while the debuff is active? The only conclusion is that there's either some negative regen being applied or it's bugged out. A shield resist debuff should have no effect on the amount that EPtS/TSS heals for.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 33
03-11-2013, 05:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
1) 5% per Mine (... that seems a bit higher than necessary)
2) This isn't easy to answer, as it has a large number of variables involved. But, as an estimate, it looks like it's about on par with 40% of an equivalent-level Photon Mine.
[/quote]


I wonder if the interaction between 1 & 2 means that 2 hits harder when it hits due to one?

Is that actually possible, does the resistance component "go first" or to they hit at the exact same time?


Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
3) No! Shocking! They were not properly tagged when created, so our power system didn't know to affect them.

I'll include a fix to #3 when I get time to update the tooltips with better info.

Hah, thanks for looking in on this issue Bort.

Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 34
03-11-2013, 05:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
1) 5% per Mine (... that seems a bit higher than necessary)
2) This isn't easy to answer, as it has a large number of variables involved. But, as an estimate, it looks like it's about on par with 40% of an equivalent-level Photon Mine.
3) No! Shocking! They were not properly tagged when created, so our power system didn't know to affect them.

I'll include a fix to #3 when I get time to update the tooltips with better info.
That fix will make them more "inline" with other science powers. Nearly useless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 199
# 35
03-11-2013, 05:22 PM
First off, thanks for trying explain these things, Borticus! It's always really helpful to learn more about the underlying mechanics of STO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Actually, now that I look closer at it, the value of the shield drain on Tachyon Mines is actually about 30% lower than that of CPB 1. But, instead of a single hit, you get multiple mines, each of which apply their full effect.
Is that per-mine? 4 mines each at 30% lower strength than CPB1 still comes out to 2.8 times a normal CPB1, and these mines can be released every 10 or 15s (somebody correct me here). In addition, do dispersal patterns do anything to the per-mine shield drain?

Also, is this being resisted by power insulators?

EDIT: Ninja'd! Thanks for finding that out, Bort!

Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
I know that Shield Drains report poorly to the combat log, and in our tooltips unless manually overridden, so it's easy to see how some misconceptions could become accepted as truths.
Just to be clear, shield drains aren't reporting at all to the combat log. Active shield heals (like EPtS or TSS) and shield damage from normal weapon types (Phaser, Disruptor, etc.) are -- in the combat log, they are listed having damage type "Shield" -- but no entries appear for abilities like CPB or these tachyon mines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
So is all damage, technically. It applies a negative value to your Hitpoint pool.

The difference here is that when you're dealt Phaser damage (e.g.) it's parsed properly as dealing Phaser damage to your Hitpoint pool. Shield damage is different though, because Shields aren't the same type of pool as Hitpoints. They are ... well, they're different. And affecting them uses the same Attribute Modifier (same class as "Phaser" in the prior example) for both heals and drains. As a result, our Combat Log and Tooltips have a hard time recognizing which is which.
Shield hits and hull hits certainly show up differently in the combat log; is this at all related? For example, if a phaser blast hits shields, then the damage the shield takes is listed as having damage type "Shield" with negative damage magnitudes (both base and actual); in contrast, the bleedthrough from that hit shows up as damage type "Phaser" with positive values for base and actual damage magnitude. Is this "Phaser" the attribute modifier"?

Shield heals also show as having negative magnitude in the combat log, whereas hull heals have the opposite sign (negative) that hull damage does (positive).
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 881
# 36
03-11-2013, 05:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maicake716 View Post
That fix will make them more "inline" with other science powers. Nearly useless.
Stop defending your pay-2-win Kai

Besides, it's the resistance debuff that really makes these mines dangerous.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 269
# 37
03-11-2013, 05:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
I know that Shield Drains report poorly to the combat log, and in our tooltips unless manually overridden, so it's easy to see how some misconceptions could become accepted as truths.

But let me squash this one once and for all: Tachyon Mines do not apply "Negative Regen."

They act exactly the same as Charged Particle Burst. In fact, the data is a direct clone of CPB Rank 1, except that instead of disabling cloaks it applies a Shield Resistance debuff.

Actually, now that I look closer at it, the value of the shield drain on Tachyon Mines is actually about 30% lower than that of CPB 1. But, instead of a single hit, you get multiple mines, each of which apply their full effect.

I'll work on getting the tooltips for these items updated. But I wanted to clarify their operation. There's no such thing as an item that inflicts a Negative Regeneration. It's all Healing, Draining, HoTs and DoTs.
I always sort of suspected as much just by looking at the target after getting hit by these mines. Thanks for clarifying this. Can you write the tooltips from now on?
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,103
# 38
03-11-2013, 05:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
1) 5% per Mine
Quick question on how this applies if you have the time Bort.

Let us just say I have 50% resist on my shield. I get hit by a mine. Does that lower my resist from 50% to 45%, or does it instead lower it by 5% of the current resist (50*.05) down to 47.5%

Also can it push the target resist to negative such as if they only had 10% resist and got hit by 4 mines would it drop them to -10% resist and cause them to take extra damage like armor resist debuffs do.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,852
# 39
03-11-2013, 05:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
I'm really trying to pull back the iron curtain on how all this stuff works, guys. But sometimes you just need to trust me.
i would tend to trust what you say in these maters, but it sorta seemed like there might have been some conflicting information. makes more sense now.

the more info about how stuff works the better! love hearing about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
3) No! Shocking! They were not properly tagged when created, so our power system didn't know to affect them.

I'll include a fix to #3 when I get time to update the tooltips with better info.
guessing he meant PI. flow caps do buff it as i understand, right?

that explains a lot, like how they can be less powerful then CPB1 each, yet a dispersal pattern can nuke shields so well. that will put an end to balance concerns over this i bet.

wile you fix that, double CPB and tach beam's damage, and throw it on holodeck. 99 insulators, that all wise pvp'ers have, currently cut the effect of these skills, and power drains exactly in half vs listed
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus

Last edited by dontdrunkimshoot; 03-11-2013 at 05:51 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 269
# 40
03-11-2013, 05:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post

wile you fix that, double CPB and tach beam's damage, and throw it on holodeck. 99 insulators, that all wise pvp'ers have, currently cut the effect of these skills, and power drains exactly in half vs listed
+1

I can get behind this idea.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:03 AM.