Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,529
# 11
03-12-2013, 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by asimosa View Post
Don't ever ever do this. Or use full turrets, for that matter. They do absolutely piss-poor damage even with rapid fire, most cruisers don't have the tac slots to make proper use of cannon skills anyway, and the fact you do the same piss-poor damage from every angle doesn't make it stop being poor.

Load beam arrays, preferrably with the experimental romulan beam so you can have eight arrays going at once with a manageable drain (sub that for a DBB or torpedo if you lack it). Fit a Fire at Will in your tac slots somewhere and keep EptW (and preferrably Aux2Bat and other weapon power increasers/weapon drain reducers) up at all times. Enjoy massive broadside damage for little effort.
Got a SC/Turret/Torpedo set on my Ambassador refit and actually manage to do pretty good with it in elite. Not on par with my escorts, but it's a viable set nonetheless.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,590
# 12
03-12-2013, 05:09 PM
Never combine beams with turrets unless you're running DBBs. Either go BAs/Torps or single cannons/turrets (with a torp if you want to).

As for me? I tend to go with the traditional 5/2/1 or 6/1/1 BA/torp setup (the other weapon is the cutting beam). It works quite well.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder. <--- DR proved me wrong!
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,023
# 13
03-12-2013, 05:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by asimosa View Post
Don't ever ever do this. Or use full turrets, for that matter.
Yeah turrets are weak, but so are beams, and beams only beat turrets when you can hold a broadside. But when you cant hold it, the 6 turrets beat the 3 beams that actually are firing. Which is better depends on playstyle, the situations you find yourself playing in, etc.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,155
# 14
03-12-2013, 05:43 PM
I use all beams, with 2 front and rear. The other 2 slots usually have torpedoes so I can fire 2 faster, or dual beams. Don't have many problems on PVE with them. Getting turned for broadside isn't that bad, the slow turn rate at times helps as by the time my front or rears end their countdown. I've already got into position for torpedoes. Using fire at will comes in handy as well on pesky fighters and smaller ships. Since they like to speed past you on attack runs. Makes it easier to target them, and do damage to soften them up so you can destroy them faster. I will say using broadside with 4 beams. Hit the move that adds penetration, and you can really chew up your target. Most of the time, when I get back into position for torpedoes. Their shields are gone, and they turn to debris.

Never messed with turrets much other than the DC/DHCs mounted on my KDF Battlecruisers. And those have a very narrow arc. But can really chew up your target once you got it locked on.

Last edited by farmallm; 03-12-2013 at 05:46 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 42
# 15
03-12-2013, 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ursusmorologus View Post
Yeah turrets are weak, but so are beams, and beams only beat turrets when you can hold a broadside. But when you cant hold it, the 6 turrets beat the 3 beams that actually are firing. Which is better depends on playstyle, the situations you find yourself playing in, etc.
Beams aren't weak, and if you think so you're probably equipping a cruiser wrong. Which I don't mean as an offense; it's actually a bit counterintuitive since you really have to set them up differently from escorts, even if you're going for damage.

For example you absolutely have to keep weapon power at at least 100 to do decent damage in a cruiser, and have ample tools to do so... but that's true for both beams and turrets, and you'll do far more damage broadsiding over fairly wide arcs with beam arrays than you'll do from any angle with turrets. And it isn't really that hard to keep a broadside angle in PVE (especially since those arcs extend above/below your ship too) unless you're in something with a crappy turn rate like a Galaxy or something which you shouldn't be because I assume you know what you're doing. Similarly, you really don't want to mix weapon types if you can help it since you're getting far less effect from your active tactical skills, and you especially want to make the most of fire at will. It's both AoE and crazy single target damage and is vastly underrated, even with its accuracy issues.

While you often see builds loading a DBB or torpedo or something, this is solely because having eight beam banks is generally too much power drain to handle, and it's part of why the experimental romulan beam is so amazing even if you're not using plasma weaponry, since it drains no power, adds to your broadside, and is affected by beam skills. I'd really recommend against a rear torpedo, but could always throw an omega cutting beam there for some extra damage at all angles and the chance for the amazing 2-piece proc with the console.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,155
# 16
03-12-2013, 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by asimosa View Post
I'd really recommend against a rear torpedo, but could always throw an omega cutting beam there for some extra damage at all angles and the chance for the amazing 2-piece proc with the console.
My ships usually have a rear torpedo for those shots when shields are down. Or when you have a situation for it. Many times I made good use for a rear torpedo. I found another rather nasty weapon to use. Is the Breen cluster torpedo. I put that as a rear weapon for my Breen ship. And that sucker packs a wallop. I saw it do all kinds of damage to a ship.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,023
# 17
03-12-2013, 09:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by asimosa View Post
Beams aren't weak
Uh, they're the 2nd weakest energy weapon in the game. Seems you didnt read my other post, but think about that and the fact that broadside has a very small window that is easily closed by you (such as trying to use a torp) or your target (who does not want to be broadsided). Sucks when you are only able to fire half of your weaps and they are the 2nd weakest. At least cannons can put out some DPS when you are only using half of the hardpoints.

Turrets arent the answer to everything (my support cruiser uses 4 beams and 4 torps). But 6 turrets > 3 beams anyday, wishing beams were powerful is not going to win anything.
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 752
# 18
03-13-2013, 12:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ursusmorologus View Post
Beams are more difficult to play than turrets. The broadside window is pretty small,
70 degrees. Bigger than the DHC window and easy to maintain so long as you're moving and turning, even in a cruiser. I think you underestimate how easy it is to orbit a target and broadside, even in the most sluggish cruiser.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ursusmorologus View Post
and putting your ship into position for it takes you out of position for using your torpedoes.
Many cruiser players counter that by buying the regent for the wide angle quantum torpedo. Great little weapon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ursusmorologus View Post
Turning requires motion, so you have to be moving all the time to time this effectively. And if you dont do that, then you will be throwing DPS down the toilet.
If a player isn't moving all the time as a matter of course (y'know, to use their defense bonus?), then they're already doing it wrong. Sitting still and shooting makes you an easy target in PvE and PvP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ursusmorologus View Post
Also, all energy weapons benefit from high weapons energy, but beams require you to keep it high just to be competitives.
So you establish that high weapons energy is good for all weapons, but it's a MUST for beams? I'm quite sure that everyone not using a science ship will tell you that high weapons energy is a must for any and every setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ursusmorologus View Post
On the other hand if you can load up with >6 beams and you can keep moving and you can keep energy high its very effective, and will do the same amount of damage as 4 DHCs shooting you.
At least you can see that part is true! Actually if you use the romulan set with plasma beams, you can use 6 beams and only suffer the power drain of 5 since the experimental plasma beam drains zero energy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by voporak View Post
So yes... you could get everything here for free.
Just like you can get a free steak dinner by collecting dropped pennies in the parking lot.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,023
# 19
03-13-2013, 07:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by emacsheadroom View Post
70 degrees. Bigger than the DHC window and easy to maintain so long as you're moving and turning, even in a cruiser. I think you underestimate how easy it is to orbit a target and broadside, even in the most sluggish cruiser.
eh, I do it myself. I'll give you an example of what I'm talking about: I have Eject Warp Plasma on fed and KDF toons, for the purpose of area lockdown. Since it is Area Effect on caster (me), I have to rush the target to drop the spell. On my kdf battlecruiser, I make a pass to dump the plasma while shooting the forward-firing weapons, and then make an anchor turn and resume using the forward-firing weapons, because the ship is agile enough to get away with doing that. On my fed cruiser (which turns very slowly), I use torps and mines for damage during the plasma pass, and fly a broadside circle around the target after the pass while it's still pinned down (additional tractor beam helps). Totally different setups for the same basic technique, based on how the ship can maneuver.

But some ships, you want to stay away from the enemy entirely, and maybe sit in a corner lobbing heavy weapons. It's the opposite of the EWP play, instead of trying to get close you are trying to stay away because you're an immobile brick that cannot turn. Beams are a poor choice for that tactic because they require you to move the ship just to maintain damage output, and on a slow ship you will be constantly losing half the arcs at which point you are doing crap damage with half of the crap beams. Turrets are better for this kind of thing because they will give you coverage everywhere, and you can fire all of them on a target while trying to reposition for next attack or while running from something that decides it doesnt like you. Very specific application.

And there are other cases where beams are better. If you can fly a circle around a target at 4k without getting dragged into a close-up fight and keep 6+ beams on target then yeah that will do good damage. But you have to be content to do that and not change position frequently, and not get focused by the target who decides to take half your beams out of play.

Just different playstyles, but as a rule, beams are good to have when you can hold a broadside but they are terrible when you cant
Ensign
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 9
# 20
03-13-2013, 08:07 AM
Thanks to everyone for input. Seems like most folks prefer beams, as you'd expect. Single cannon/turret sounds kinda fun to try, though. Will experiment and see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by notapwefan View Post
a federation cruiser would look good with turrets only
My thanks to the KDF for confirming that all turrets is a bad idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
Never combine beams with turrets unless you're running DBBs. Either go BAs/Torps or single cannons/turrets (with a torp if you want to).
Why the exception for DBBs? I assumed you don't mix cannons and beams because of needing the different tac boff skills...what's different with DBBs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ursusmorologus View Post
But when you cant hold it, the 6 turrets beat the 3 beams that actually are firing.
Really? 6 turrets on crf beats 3 beams on bo? (with NI or something on, of course.) That's an honest inquiry; like I said, nubcaek here.

Currently on an eng character, for the record, so skillset is strong on keeping power up rather than raw dakka.
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