Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 161
03-13-2013, 07:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by archoncryptic
These items were intended to be for fun and flavor purposes. While some of the posters have noted that Spiral Wave Disruptors are a similar case, those weapons are significantly more expensive and only a specific weapon type (Beam Array) is available. Making all weapon types at that level of power available on the Dilithium store would represent a significant change to our game's loot progression.
Hi Archon.


Actually the Spiral Waves would still be quite a cut above the Andorian Weapons if the Andorians were made MK XII.


The Andorian weapons have:
> 1 Proc (phaser)
> 3 Mods (a typical weapon design).
= Total of 4 Mods

The Spiral Wave Disruptor Beam Arrays have:
> 2 Procs (disruptor & phaser)
> 4 Mods (ACCx2, DMGx2)
= Total of 6 Mods



So the Spiral Waves have 6 mods in comparison to 4 mods to justify their higher cost, you also get 4 of them complimentary with the actual Galor, and only need to buy 4 more if you're so inclined.



The Andorian Ship comes with 0 Andorian Phasers, and they are for all intents and purposes "blue phasers".

Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,647
# 162
03-13-2013, 07:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcostik View Post
So does this mean we'll be getting Fleet Spiral Wave Disruptors? I spent a ton of dil on them, and I'm not complaining about that, but if you're adding in fleet variants of d-store weapons to placate the seething masses, then please be fair about it, and give us Galor owners (who have spent TONS of zen getting the ships in the first place) the same.
I'd love that but seeing as they're the best beams in the game I'd say that's never going to happen.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 485
# 163
03-13-2013, 09:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
I'd love that but seeing as they're the best beams in the game I'd say that's never going to happen.
Y'know what I'd like to see? Different wing cannon flavors... Plasma, Disruptor, Tetryon, Anti-Proton, etc.

It's not like the Phaser Lance that's welded to the ship, it's a weapon can be removed or even discarded. I'd pay good Dilithium to not be locked into using only phasers on this ship when I have, for Example, a full set of Romulan Weapons after grinding my Romulan reputation.

It'd be nice to be able to use the other hybrid weapons that are in the game, as there are NO hybrid weapons that are Phaser-Based. Plenty with phaser procs, but none that have phaser as the core damage.

I mean if you're gonna nerf the Andorian weapons, please give us a bone here. I see nothing but sales if you make different wing cannon weapons. And people need to own the ship to use the wing cannons, so win/win.
Formerly known as Protector from June 2008 to June 20, 2012

If the KDF can get a Fleet D7 (That can be upgraded to a T5-U), the Feds should have a Fleet Exeter.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,926
# 164
03-13-2013, 09:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathanlonehawk View Post
Y'know what I'd like to see? Different wing cannon flavors... Plasma, Disruptor, Tetryon, Anti-Proton, etc.

It's not like the Phaser Lance that's welded to the ship, it's a weapon can be removed or even discarded. I'd pay good Dilithium to not be locked into using only phasers on this ship when I have, for Example, a full set of Romulan Weapons after grinding my Romulan reputation.

It'd be nice to be able to use the other hybrid weapons that are in the game, as there are NO hybrid weapons that are Phaser-Based. Plenty with phaser procs, but none that have phaser as the core damage.

I mean if you're gonna nerf the Andorian weapons, please give us a bone here. I see nothing but sales if you make different wing cannon weapons. And people need to own the ship to use the wing cannons, so win/win.

Actually I agree. More special weapons for the non phaser and non disruptor weapon types would be great. Wing cannons, quad cannons, etc.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,076
I shall not be original because IMHO the best comments about this debacle have been said by the forum community already, starting with my personal favorite:

Quote:
Originally Posted by aelfwin1 View Post
I hate to use the old 'excuse me ?' , but Excuse Me ???

A 25-50$ item that needed a ton of fixes and now even it's accessories (that cost more money (or grind)) get fudged as well ??

Who let Bobo The Clown run the show (?) and how on earth are we suppose to trust anything else that Cryptic might want to sell us ?

Also , the proposed solution is not all that great because it hides the Mk12 versions behind the Giant Wall of Grind called a Starbase .
How is that exactly supposed to encourage sales of the Smurf ship ?
^THIS +10

Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
Hi Archon.


Actually the Spiral Waves would still be quite a cut above the Andorian Weapons if the Andorians were made MK XII.


The Andorian weapons have:
> 1 Proc (phaser)
> 3 Mods (a typical weapon design).
= Total of 4 Mods

The Spiral Wave Disruptor Beam Arrays have:
> 2 Procs (disruptor & phaser)
> 4 Mods (ACCx2, DMGx2)
= Total of 6 Mods



So the Spiral Waves have 6 mods in comparison to 4 mods to justify their higher cost, you also get 4 of them complimentary with the actual Galor, and only need to buy 4 more if you're so inclined.


The Andorian Ship comes with 0 Andorian Phasers, and they are for all intents and purposes "blue phasers".
^THIS

Quote:
Originally Posted by erocker View Post
Considering they are special "Andorian" phasers I don't find it hard to believe that folks who bought them were pretty confident about the legitimacy of the stats.
Quote:
Originally Posted by archoncryptic View Post
The Dilithium store isn't intended to carry the best equipment in the game. These items were priced as Mark XI items - similar to the other gear already available in the Dilithium store. The incorrect stats were a bug, and I apologize if people bought them based on that bug.

As a general rule, we try to keep our endgame equipment in endgame systems, such as the Fleet system and the various Reputation systems.

We'd like to have higher-end Andorian weapons available as well, and we're currently discussing the best way to make those available to players.
^ I call BS since you can get mk xii purple weapons as drops in elite stfs, which all my just leveled noob toons can do without any fancy rep yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerobang View Post
why?
what are you holding the XII versions back for?
is there an Andorian Reputation system planned? or a Fleet Holding that hands out Andorian stuff?

i really see no reason to release these and then only hand out XI versions.
^ MONEY grab or to cover up any acknowledgement to quality control?

Quote:
Originally Posted by usscapital View Post
that's what the tribble test server is for (well it is supposed to be) , but far to often these bugs/mis-labeled things hit the holodeck
^MORE importantly what about the in-house test server, which they are testing season 8-ish on? -_-

Quote:
Originally Posted by eisaakaz View Post
As a developer myself... the real questions that beg to be answered here are:

1. Why did you not have this conversation before you released these in the first place?
2. Why were they released with a bug or error or miss information (place whatever word you need here)?

As a development team with 3 years into a project, how are you letting these issues get on production servers? Have you just thrown testing out the window? Is one guy just doing whatever he wants and you all wake up and find new ships flying around the server?

Eisaak
^THIS

Quote:
Originally Posted by sean2448 View Post
but why they cost so much for 11 once we hit RA upper half or MG we get 12 so why not bump up to 12 any way?
^THIS

Quote:
Originally Posted by futurepastnow View Post
Spirals also cost 43k dil.

The solution is obvious; leave the Andorian weapons with Mk XII stats, change their tooltip to show Mk XII, and increase their price accordingly. Nobody loses anything they've already purchased and the early adopters get to enjoy their discount.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathanlonehawk View Post
A win/win here is to increase the Dil cost of the ones currently in the store instead of nerfing (and it *is* a nerf) the ones people already bought. Since we have to have an Andorian Escort to already get the weapons, we have already paid a premium for them just to unlock them. No one should be upset by the price increase. Just call the earlier price an introductory sale.

See, easy peasy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post

Here's another way of looking at this. Last I checked, the Andorian weapons that are soon to be nerfed are STILL in the dilithium store. This thread started 4 days ago. If Cryptic had any honour they would have removed the weapons from the store with a quick patch, preventing people who don't read the forums from suffering the same fate as those of us for whom it's already too late.

Why are they still for sale if they're going to be nerfed? Because Cryptic can still make a few more bucks before nerfing it. They know that there are people who don't read the forums and they're banking on those for a little extra profit. They're prepared to obtain more financial gain (for those who convert zen to dil) using deceptive means. Theft.
^THIS +100

Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
It's funny you say that. I was thinking about buying some zen/keys as I wanted to try at getting a Galor. Then I thought, "No, why should I give them money when they've just cost me so much dilithium?" Instead I went to to pub with some friends and spent that money on beer. I had a lot of fun and the bartender didn't tell me that he needed to dilute the beer after I drank it.

Sorry, Cryptic. (Well, I'm not sorry but it seemed the polite thing to say.)
^THIS
It makes me sad that a game I love to play {24 toons last count but i still have open slots } has such poor in-house quality control and that the community can come up with a better solution than just swing the nerf Bat because we want you to grind/spend more cash later, truly sad.

Good Hunting all
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 122
# 166
03-13-2013, 11:05 AM
This post is long but very informative please read on:

Frankly it amazes to sheer amount of contradiction that Cryptic is throwing around. You say that due to a mistake made on your part because of your lack of internal testing (please don't say you have an internal testing team, because if that were true we wouldn't see half the dumb and obvious bugs we currently have in game for months and years even) you put the incorrect stats on the Andorian phasers and now you are going to force changes on items that people have already bought. This is a contradiction to to statements made on other forum posts by YOU ARCHON: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...524671&page=10

Originally Posted by archoncryptic View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by archoncryptic View Post
Adjusting the existing BOFFs would be unfair to people who bought the BOFFs for the powers they already have. While Subterfuge isn't as popular as Romulan Operative in the forum community, that doesn't mean someone didn't buy a BOFF with the intent of getting the Subterfuge trait..
By your own words changing an item that you have already bought for the stats it posseses is considered UNFAIR and thus will not be changed. So please explain to me what your doing here. Which version of the truth is correct here then, the fact that you don't add/fix/change some obvious mistake/laziness because its unfair to those that have already purchased the items as they currently are? Or the fact that you are about to forcefully change MULTIPLE ITEMS bought by ALOT of people??

So then I imagine that after these changes go into effect you are going to then fix the Romulan BOFFS, and change the stats on all the boffs that have been bought so far to keep in line with your reasoning here. Correct? If not then you and everyone at Cryptic is a hypocrite, what you are doing is unethical, and hiding behind the guise of "this content is subject to change at any time" is total bull**** and you know it.


As for your marvelous Fleet Advanced Andorian Phasers coming up, are you serious? This has to be a joke correct, you are taking a mislabeled item nerfing it and then to compensate you add the exact same item in the fleet store but now they are blue, and still require owning the andorian escort to buy them? Not to mention they have the exact same stats as weapons we already own....... Will these be available for every stat combination currently available for all weapons in the fleet store or just 1 single type? Can we at least trade in our current fleet phasers to obtain these or do we have to fork over another huge amount of dilithium to get a little FLAVOR into our ships? Since most people already own advanced fleet weapons, why not bump these up to the Elite fleet weapons which are only phasers and re work the stats like someone said, give it 6 mods just like the spinal phasers from the galor, make it ACCx2 DMGx2 Phaser proc, SHeal proc? Adding just coloring flavor to something is extremely dull specially for an item that is so expensive. This way it would fit on your scale of you have to work hard to get it. Recapping you would need, a T5 starbase, an Andorian escort purchased, and the dilithium to be able to obtain, I think this would constitute your idea of working to get end game content, wouldn't you agree.

Sorry going a bit off topic here: Why was a mistake as obvious as this not picked up before the release of the Andorian content. It seems to me that almost everything regarding the Andorian ships was released completely half assed and incomplete. You boasted about the beauty and power these ships have when you announced them, only to make them available with so many bugs that the question of whether or not these were tested was brought up and YOU said:

Quote: We do have an internal QA team, and they're actually the reason why these *are* on a shared cooldown - the burst potential was just too high.

This was for the shared cooldown issue with the Ando consoles, which if any real testing would have been done you would know, that this is not true, hence your decision to remove the shared cooldown days after the ship and consoles were released.

Recapping on Andorian Content Released so far:
Andorian Ship: Shield bug, Healing bug,
Andorian Conoles: Shared CD with BOFF abilities, changed right away (intentional bug)
Andorian Weapons: Mislabeled, wrong stats (about to be forcefully changed)
Wing Cannons: Unable to delete bug.

If I am missing some other Andorian content please add it in but I am sure that ALL Andorian content was bug on release. So can you really sit there and tell me that your INTERNAL QA Team was unable to find all of these OBVIOUS issues before it was relased. If that is true then FIRE them cause they suck and don't know how to do their jobs.


Back on topic: I was really surprised and happy that you used an answer to one of my posts to make clear that dilithium weapons are not meant for end game, but if the purpose of the andorian weapons is meant for just flavor and not to provide any edge over other "real" end game weapons then, why not use the suggestion I gave you and make the blue phaser color a unique ability on the andorian ship itself? IE: if you fly a andorian escort and use phasers on it the phasers come out blue, BAM problem solved and you added a nice flavor pump into the ship?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 807
# 167
03-13-2013, 11:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by archoncryptic View Post
The incorrect stats were a bug, and I apologize if people bought them based on that bug.
As a general rule, I frown upon items being advertised incorrectly, then "fixed" after the purchase. Truth be told, I probably wouldn't have purchased them if the stats were accurately represented. While the visuals are pretty, they wouldn't have been enough of a draw for me to purchase them in this case.

While I appreciate the apology, This doesn't detract from the fact that these are expensive, and that people like me purchased them expecting one thing, and will be ultimately getting something else.

You know, there is some president here regarding a departure from your "general rule",
the spiral wave disruptors, the Jem Hadar carrier pets come to mind. (the quad cannons too, but that's another story)
While I understand that those items I listed, are lock box ship items, they're generally considered superior to the general dilithium fare, and putting them side by side with the Andorian items in the special item section, was also a little misleading, in my opinion.

In all honesty, I would have just preferred you upping the cost of the ship a bit and just including the weapons with the ship. I don't like the way this was handled. People who bought the bundle, should have gotten the standard Andorian weapons layout as part of the package.

This is just my opinion as a consumer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by archoncryptic View Post
We'd like to have higher-end Andorian weapons available as well, and we're currently discussing the best way to make those available to players.
For yet MORE dilithium me thinks. And will you be offering those of us who bought these versions under this "bug" a chance to upgrade, or do we have to purchase them straight out all over again?

Also, as a Galor owner, will you be offering spiral wave disruptor turrets and cannons too ? Please

Quote:
Originally Posted by aramyll View Post
Recapping on Andorian Content Released so far:
Andorian Ship: Shield bug, Healing bug,
Andorian Conoles: Shared CD with BOFF abilities, changed right away (intentional bug)
Andorian Weapons: Mislabeled, wrong stats (about to be forcefully changed)
Wing Cannons: Unable to delete bug.

If I am missing some other Andorian content please add it in but I am sure that ALL Andorian content was bug on release.
I'm afraid I must concur with this statement.
And I find it rather troubling as it speaks to the quality of the items we are purchasing.
In hindsight, there really is no excuse for this. You guys have to do better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Schissler/Online Multiplayer Gaming View Post
(In regards to STO Delta Rising): "Where a fun casual game once sat proudly, a horrible grind fest now stands. All this expansion has made me want to do, is log in less."

Last edited by vengefuldjinn; 03-13-2013 at 11:33 AM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,647
# 168
03-13-2013, 11:13 AM
I invite a member of the Cryptic team to answer any one of the vast multitudes of points raised in this thread. If I had my preference I'd like them to answer:

* Why the Andorian weapons are STILL for sale in the dilithium store?
* Why are they being nerfed when you said you wouldn't alter the Romulan BOffs as it would be unfair to those who bought them.
* Why you say that things in the dilithium store are not meant to be end-game items when the Jem'Hadar fighters (for those with a Dominion carrier) are in the dilithium store are CLEARLY end-game items.

Last edited by darramouss1; 03-13-2013 at 11:16 AM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 188
# 169
03-13-2013, 11:53 AM
I want to add to what has been posted here. I bought a full set of weapons based on indicated stats, now you say you will nerf them, I want my dilitium back and you can have the weapons back. That kind of things pest me off big time and I feel like I've been had.

If you can't label items for sale correctly that not my f..k..g problem, I want what I paid for and the stat that were on the weapon when I bought them, not some lower stat that "should" have been there. For over 100k dilitium price for a full set that the lest you can do for those early adopter that mistakenly believe the stat you put on the weapons to at least leave those stat on the weapon.
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Ka -tet Tier 5 fleet fully completed Starbase and fleet property
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 226
# 170
03-13-2013, 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by innuwarrior View Post
I want to add to what has been posted here. I bought a full set of weapons based on indicated stats, now you say you will nerf them, I want my dilitium back and you can have the weapons back. That kind of things pest me off big time and I feel like I've been had.

If you can't label items for sale correctly that not my f..k..g problem, I want what I paid for and the stat that were on the weapon when I bought them, not some lower stat that "should" have been there. For over 100k dilitium price for a full set that the lest you can do for those early adopter that mistakenly believe the stat you put on the weapons to at least leave those stat on the weapon.
Goodness! It's great to see so many people behave like consumers should. You guys should be proud of yourselves, if for nothing else than not going down quietly.
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