Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 220
# 221
03-15-2013, 09:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller View Post
The problem is actually with the cannons not with the beams.

Cannons have an absurd damage and rate of fire and this is what makes the beams look so decrepit.

Cannons need to be changed to:


Single cannon
Single Heavy Cannon*
Dual Cannon

*Rather than it being dual heavy cannon.

By removing the very high damage dual heavy cannon and 'trimming it' to a single heavy cannon the cannon ships in the game fall in line with the beam weaponry.

How? Simple. The cannon's primary advantage is that it has a rapid refire & fire rate plus the boff abilities buff ALL cannons not just one (unlike beams) when firing on a single target.

The dual heavy cannon receives an insane damage boost and rate of fire bonus from boff abilities and this is why most people dont bother with single cannons and rarely use dual cannons. The dual heavy is the one that has the massive damage output.

A single heavy cannon would have the same refire rate the dual heavy has now but only have minimally better damage output than the dual cannons .The catch: the heavy cannon has twice the secondary effect the non-heavy cannons have. Not chance to proc but the effect itself.

Oh here come the witch hunting cannon brigade seriously this trolling is getting beyond a joke now what do you people not understand about needing your enemy ship to be in the firing arc when dealing cannon damage. If anything cannons should be given the 250 degree firing arc that beams have. Seriously Im having a tough time understanding peoples irrational thinking on this.

Im fed up and wish people would realise that its unrealistic to expect every single thing in this game to be balanced. All ships serve different purposes. A Tac in an escorts serves to do high DPS, High damage and to rip open enemy shields and hull before cruisers go in and finish the job. In the time an escort pilot has whilst having 10 - 15 seconds with cannons bearing down on the enemy, he will have done the same damage that you have done flying around with your 250 degree firing arc beams. I mean come on ?

If you were to nerf cannons you wouldn't have the spike damage and fights would be long boring and rawn out.

How about everyone who complains about cannons grow a pair and use a tractor beam on an escort. As an escort pilot I can tell you if you catch me whils my OMEGA and or Polrize hull is on cd, and I have you and 5 of your buddies on me then im done for.

That is the simple answer to cannons, teamwork + tractor beams. How hard is it to grab and understand this simple fundamental gameplay mechanic. It would take a lot less time and effort than coming to the forums being butthurt and ruining other peoples gameplay.

If anything, and I think is a more suitable, realistic and agreeable change is to speed up beam firing and shorten the gap between beam firing. I do agree beam firing animation plays for too long.

Watch this and pay attention as the defiant and neghvar go at it. Beams need to be shorter than they are but do the same damage :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-trPu637dS0

Now please, enough of the stupid ideas and illogical ramblings, go learn to play or go play neverwinter. I shouldn't have to have my style of play removed from the game hence ruining my enjoyment because of peple on an agenda because they are butthurt or mad from pvp.

Ive been in this game since start and if you saw all my characters, builds, traits, playtime I can truly make an informed decision on this issue. If you saw what Ive done in game you would think ok yeah fair enough this guy knows what hes on about.

Im not judging or trolling but the ongoing witch hunt which the moderators allow to continue makes me sad. ABout time moderators started putting a curb on this trolling.

Last edited by pointedears; 03-15-2013 at 10:06 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,005
# 222
03-15-2013, 11:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pointedears View Post
All ships serve different purposes. A Tac in an escorts serves to do high DPS, High damage and to rip open enemy shields and hull before cruisers go in and finish the job. In the time an escort pilot has whilst having 10 - 15 seconds with cannons bearing down on the enemy, he will have done the same damage that you have done flying around with your 250 degree firing arc beams. I mean come on ?
I applaud your entire post, this portion specifically. Most folks don't realize that a nerf to cannons will undoubtedly come with a buff to hull or other aspect to Escorts, which will no doubt lead to more complaining.
Captain Kirk is climbing a mountain. Why is he climbing a mountain? Is he learning to fly?
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,121
# 223
03-15-2013, 12:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pointedears View Post
Oh here come the witch hunting cannon brigade seriously this trolling is getting beyond a joke now what do you people not understand about needing your enemy ship to be in the firing arc when dealing cannon damage. If anything cannons should be given the 250 degree firing arc that beams have. Seriously Im having a tough time understanding peoples irrational thinking on this.
oh, that maybe the higher dps of cannons is supposed to be offset by that narrow firing arc?
something that doesnt matter when in an escort since they have double the base turn rate of cruisers that are smaller than they are.

Quote:
Im fed up and wish people would realise that its unrealistic to expect every single thing in this game to be balanced. All ships serve different purposes. A Tac in an escorts serves to do high DPS, High damage and to rip open enemy shields and hull before cruisers go in and finish the job. In the time an escort pilot has whilst having 10 - 15 seconds with cannons bearing down on the enemy, he will have done the same damage that you have done flying around with your 250 degree firing arc beams. I mean come on ?
yes, and balance doesnt have to mean uniformity.
indeed, specialisation options are what bring player ability into the mix.

Quote:
If you were to nerf cannons you wouldn't have the spike damage and fights would be long boring and rawn out.
i fully agree.
but there are linked mechanics in the game that mean cannons arent spike damage, they are sustained high damage.
something to do with my adv escort being capable of doing a 180 in 1 second with a turning radius lower than the ships own length.

Quote:
How about everyone who complains about cannons grow a pair and use a tractor beam on an escort. As an escort pilot I can tell you if you catch me whils my OMEGA and or Polrize hull is on cd, and I have you and 5 of your buddies on me then im done for.
there in being part of the balance issue.
the damage dealer is the one that needs the 3 man team to kill, where as, the sponge can often be taken out by one escort. occasionally 2 just to make it a sure thing.

Quote:
That is the simple answer to cannons, teamwork + tractor beams. How hard is it to grab and understand this simple fundamental gameplay mechanic. It would take a lot less time and effort than coming to the forums being butthurt and ruining other peoples gameplay.
that the obvious reliable way to counter cannons... is your own cannons? yea, got that.
hence my choice being an escort.

Quote:
Now please, enough of the stupid ideas and illogical ramblings, go learn to play or go play neverwinter. I shouldn't have to have my style of play removed from the game hence ruining my enjoyment because of peple on an agenda because they are butthurt or mad from pvp.
Now please, enough of the stupid ideas and illogical ramblings.
ah, you mean ''fair play'' is an agenda? how terrible.
how utterly rediculous that i should expect my adv escort to be on par with the smaller seavy cruiser, rather than dancing around it, able to break off at my leisure.


Quote:
Ive been in this game since start and if you saw all my characters, builds, traits, playtime I can truly make an informed decision on this issue. If you saw what Ive done in game you would think ok yeah fair enough this guy knows what hes on about.
its easy when you can break out a calculator to find dominant solutions.
not so easy to admit that something is still an exploit even if those in charge declare ''working as designed''.

[quote]Im not judging or trolling but the ongoing witch hunt which the moderators allow to continue makes me sad. ABout time moderators started putting a curb on this trolling./QUOTE]
but you see, you are trolling. and condescending, and making appeals to authority.
in this case, to the mods to shut down things you dont want to hear.
as it turns out, an intrepid would lose a fight with a connie.
and thats canon.
! the power of plot compels you.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 224
03-15-2013, 07:44 PM
If you're in a Federation cruiser and you're being taken out by 2 attackers, you are doing it wrong. Unless they literally overloaded you with sci spam or other disablers, a competent cruiser PvPer should be able to tank 2-3 attackers for a good while.

As for escorts. . .with evenly matched opponents, I can see a tanky escort (JHAS, Patrol/Advanced escorts) hold off against 2 attackers, at best. If the attackers are crappy at PvP and timing their bursts, it'll take more. Hit 'em with immobilizers, and they'll go down faster.

Perhaps escort defenses need to be nerfed a bit. That's definitely open to discussion, as some escorts are rather good at tanking when in the right hands.

Instead of screwing around with weapons, we should be taking a look at defensive powers, and re-work the system to make it harder for escorts to tank, making cruisers more valuable both in PvP and PvE. The only reason DHCs even cut through competent defenses in PvP right now is because it's burst damage. Nerf the damage of DHCs, and suddenly everyone's nigh unkillable.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,456
# 225
03-15-2013, 09:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingmaster View Post
If you're in a Federation cruiser and you're being taken out by 2 attackers, you are doing it wrong. Unless they literally overloaded you with sci spam or other disablers, a competent cruiser PvPer should be able to tank 2-3 attackers for a good while.

As for escorts. . .with evenly matched opponents, I can see a tanky escort (JHAS, Patrol/Advanced escorts) hold off against 2 attackers, at best. If the attackers are crappy at PvP and timing their bursts, it'll take more. Hit 'em with immobilizers, and they'll go down faster.

Perhaps escort defenses need to be nerfed a bit. That's definitely open to discussion, as some escorts are rather good at tanking when in the right hands.

Instead of screwing around with weapons, we should be taking a look at defensive powers, and re-work the system to make it harder for escorts to tank, making cruisers more valuable both in PvP and PvE. The only reason DHCs even cut through competent defenses in PvP right now is because it's burst damage. Nerf the damage of DHCs, and suddenly everyone's nigh unkillable.
Finally, a sensible suggestion.

Good work sir!
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,912
# 226
03-16-2013, 05:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingmaster View Post
Perhaps escort defenses need to be nerfed a bit. That's definitely open to discussion, as some escorts are rather good at tanking when in the right hands.
Well, I had an argument in a thread with someone about percentage based healing Where (for example) Aux2SIF would be more effective from a cruiser or sci ship than from an escort lets say we have an escort with 1000 max hull (post skill points etc) running 25 aux power they would get an Aux2SIF heal of 150 but a cruiser with 5000 max hull (Post skills points etc) running 50 aux power would get 1000 from the same skill and a Sci ship with 3250 max hull (Post skill points etc) running 100 aux power would get 975 from Aux2SIF

The formula would be as follows:

A= Max hull (1000)
B= Percentage of max hull (in this case 10%)
C= Aux mod (0.02)
D= Aux Power (25)
E= Base heal (100)
F= Aux bonus (50%)
G= End Heal (150)

So; E=A*B and F=C*D

Heal formula: =E+(E*F)

This means you can have an escort with 1000 max hull and 125 aux power and the cruiser with 5000 max hull and 5 aux power and the cruiser will get a better heal. The same can be done for shield heals and so long as base hull and shield HPs are adjusted accordingly escorts will become glass cannons again
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,121
# 227
03-16-2013, 06:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkafei View Post
This means you can have an escort with 1000 max hull and 125 aux power and the cruiser with 5000 max hull and 5 aux power and the cruiser will get a better heal. The same can be done for shield heals and so long as base hull and shield HPs are adjusted accordingly escorts will become glass cannons again

http://www.stowiki.org/Heavy_Cruiser_Retrofit
36k hull
turn 8
impulse mod .15(guessing same as other hc)

http://www.stowiki.org/Advanced_Escort
31 k hull
turn 16
impulse mod .20

http://www.stowiki.org/Reconnaissance_Science_Vessel
27k hull
turn 15
impulse mod .15

these thips are roughly the same size, with the recon sci being largest and heavy cruiser being smallest.
as you can see, escorts are at no disadvantage in hull strength
indeed, they would be have more powerful heals than science ships.
the base hull disparity just is not there.
well, except for bop's, you actually notice their hulls are weak when you get into a fight...
as it turns out, an intrepid would lose a fight with a connie.
and thats canon.
! the power of plot compels you.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,912
# 228
03-16-2013, 07:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skollulfr View Post
as you can see, escorts are at no disadvantage in hull strength
indeed, they would be have more powerful heals than science ships.
the base hull disparity just is not there.
well, except for bop's, you actually notice their hulls are weak when you get into a fight...
I know, that is why I said they would have to adjusted accordingly, as long as that is done the system will work and escorts will no longer be tanking elite tac cubes as they currently do
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,121
# 229
03-16-2013, 08:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkafei View Post
I know, that is why I said they would have to adjusted accordingly, as long as that is done the system will work and escorts will no longer be tanking elite tac cubes as they currently do
that'l be funny when people start crying about their fter & roach boats suddenly being balanced in some way comparable to a hegh'ta.
as it turns out, an intrepid would lose a fight with a connie.
and thats canon.
! the power of plot compels you.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,540
# 230
03-16-2013, 08:36 AM
Why do every bad pvper wants escorts nerfed?

Why should PVE be ruined because of their lack of skills?

Why should all the players suffer because a few of the PVP players ( a minor part of the gamers in game) feel that they are not super cool enough?

Why not buff cruiser healing and hit points instead?
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