Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 867
# 21
03-15-2013, 11:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecosmic1 View Post
Not completely false. As an LTS member, yourself, you should understand that you get 500 "free" Zen each month. You can also get "free" Zen by doing various surveys on the website. I have sold my "free" Zen for Dilithium on occasion - and I'm sure I am not alone there. So while it is true the vast majority of Zen is paid for by someone there is also a percentage being sold in the Dilithium Exchange that was never purchased by anyone.
That is not really free though. In return for paying $200-300 you get $60 worth of "zen" a year. That stipend might be cheaper than buying it outright averaged over the life of the game, but it is hardly free.

Also, surveys are not free either. Market research is expensive. You are selling them your demographic data, which is a valuable commodity, in return for in game currency.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 518
# 22
03-15-2013, 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by squidheadjax View Post
But it's not really free. You bought two items at a 50% discount.
No I did not. I intended to buy one item and got 2 for the same price. There for the 2nd one was free.

See I can make blanket statements based on a point of view too. Your way of looking at it, is no more valid then mine. Wither you want to say I got a discount or something for free simply doesn't matter, because it's purely a matter of semantics at that point.

Either way I got twice as much for the same price. Free or a discount is a mater of your POV. But to say it was free is very much keeping with every definition of the word that I know of, so it's completely accurate to use that term.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 518
# 23
03-15-2013, 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by logicalspock View Post
That is not really free though. In return for paying $200-300 you get $60 worth of "zen" a year.
And again...

If someone bought one when there was no stipend being offered, how can you claim that they paid for it? They paid X for Y, where in this case Y is lifetime membership. It's not like they charged people after the fact for that Stipend. They also don't offer a stipend free version for less money.

So no matter how you try to slice it, you are getting Y and Z for the same price as you did for just Y.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 24
03-15-2013, 11:58 AM
You paid money, you received a product. Had you not paid, you would not have received said product. That means it wasn't free. The fact that you got more of it than you originally intended to get is irrelevant.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 887
# 25
03-15-2013, 11:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecosmic1 View Post
As an LTS member who reached the break-even point 21 months ago, I certainly consider it free. On top of that I have been given 16 Stipends: $80.00 worth of Zen. I have, effectively, been refunded 1/3 the price of what I paid for my LTS - and if the game lasts another 2.5ish years I will have been given a 100% refund in Zen.

On top of that, as was said above, when I purchased my LTS it was not done for Zen. There was no concept of Zen or Cryptic Points at that time. I have been given a bonus item that was not part of my original agreement. As such I certainly consider it free.

I guess I'm just not one of the "entitlement" crowd.
If you don't pay for something and demand it, it becomes an entitlement. I payed for my LTS and the stipend that comes with it. My stipend is part of a business agreement.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 544
# 26
03-15-2013, 12:03 PM
While the OP's argument is generally true, there are those players that work the exchange over the longer investment. Right now is the time for converting dilithium to zen. Six months from now, the exchange could swing the other way and allow them to convert their zen for zen for a dilithium profit. I myself did this last year...

However, with more and more Starbases hitting that end tier, the dilithium market is likely to stay at the current exchange rate for most of 2013 unless Cryptic releases something to swing it the other way.
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,457
# 27
03-15-2013, 12:05 PM
So ... a LTS did not include a Zen (or C-Store) stipend at first? Well, I plead ignorance at that fact.

But since they included a stipend later, without raising the cost of LTS, then the stipend is literally "free"?

That's an interesting perspective and I can see the merit of that argument. But I choose not to agree with that perspective because I'm no longer concerned with how the LTS was but how it is. And that defines my perspective.
Kathryn S. Beringer - The Dawn Patrol

Solaris build - Veritatum Liquido Cernene

Last edited by cmdrscarlet; 03-15-2013 at 12:06 PM. Reason: Ooops
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,054
# 28
03-15-2013, 12:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamiyama317 View Post
If you don't pay for something and demand it, it becomes an entitlement. I payed for my LTS and the stipend that comes with it. My stipend is part of a business agreement.
As has been stated a couple of times in the thread, now, it depends on when you bought it. My LTS purchase entitled me to full access to the servers, a Borg Captain, and Vet Rewards - all of which I still have. Since that purchase I have been given bonus items which included access to the Captain's Table and a Stipend, but neither of those things were what I paid for. Bonus items are not something I paid for when I made my LTS purchase.

It is possible you purchased your LTS after they began offering Stipends in December of 2011, but that is not the case for all of us.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,500
# 29
03-15-2013, 12:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cptvanor View Post
And again...

If someone bought one when there was no stipend being offered, how can you claim that they paid for it? They paid X for Y, where in this case Y is lifetime membership. It's not like they charged people after the fact for that Stipend. They also don't offer a stipend free version for less money.

So no matter how you try to slice it, you are getting Y and Z for the same price as you did for just Y.

when i bought my LTA before F2P then i paid my money for a $15 a month subscription game
now i get $5 Zen per month,
that is $10 less than what i initially i paid for... fair deal? hardly. just enough to shut up the majority of the consumer zombies about the change.

and don't get me started on those "gold sub" slots...
you keep all of that stuff permanently if you sub one month and unsub again so all of that is worth 1x $15 no matter how you want to spin it.

LTA at this point is really only good for the *Veteran* rewards...


/don't want to derail topic but... bleh
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 518
# 30
03-15-2013, 12:36 PM
Free or not free is simply a matter of perspective and point of view, it's a completely semantic argument. It's also irrelevant to the current topic.

The point is, that Cryptic/PWE does in fact benefit by having the amount of the Dilithium in the game be scarce, because people are willing to pay for it.

They are not only willing to pay for it, they are willing to pay more for it now then they did when there was less things to spend Dilthium on.
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