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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,081
# 21
03-15-2013, 02:41 PM
Lol I've survived Donatra's torp spread with TTi and epts only, true story . I also have all the defensive passives from the rep store, which is probably not a good idea for an escort .

Hey Cryptic, can you DPS this Error ID 30191178 so that I can play?
**~Reality under scrutiny~**
@haudace
UFP Fleet: Operation Omega Task Force | KDF Fleet: KHG Klingon Honor Guard
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 539
# 22
03-16-2013, 01:23 AM
It's sad seeing so many people not getting the point or using this thread to boast with their e-peen. Congratulations, I'm sure the OP also survived 20 other torp spreads before. Doesn't change that this fight and Borg encounters in general are still terribly designed.

Good MMO boss design:

1. Everything can be countered.
2. It is clear to the player when he has to use the counter and what he did wrong if he dies after all

One-shots from full HP are pretty unacceptable unless they have a visible charge time and enough of a window to dodge them (The Tholaron cannon when it's not bugged is a good example on an ability that can and should legitimately one-shot).
With the Torp Spread your only hint is the buff bar, half of which often disappears below the enemies current target... And if 20 debuffs of the team are on it, important buffs can vanish right under that target display. But even if you notice it, you have just 2 or 3 seconds before it hits you. It might be survivable with BFI most of the time, but with one or two crits I call bull**** even on that. I have died to the torp spread in an Assault Cruiser with 59k hull and 45% kinetic resist. BFI on top of that will only add another 4% or so.

(Also counters need to be available to everyone, so BFI or Lt. level abilities are all that might be acceptable counters. Stuff like AuxtoSif3 or Aceton Beam 3 or Subnuke aren't proper counters because not every ship/captain type has access to them and with the current match making you can't be sure the team has them available.)
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 23
03-16-2013, 02:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcademaster View Post
It's sad seeing so many people not getting the point or using this thread to boast with their e-peen. Congratulations, I'm sure the OP also survived 20 other torp spreads before. Doesn't change that this fight and Borg encounters in general are still terribly designed.

Good MMO boss design:

1. Everything can be countered.
2. It is clear to the player when he has to use the counter and what he did wrong if he dies after all

One-shots from full HP are pretty unacceptable unless they have a visible charge time and enough of a window to dodge them (The Tholaron cannon when it's not bugged is a good example on an ability that can and should legitimately one-shot).
With the Torp Spread your only hint is the buff bar, half of which often disappears below the enemies current target... And if 20 debuffs of the team are on it, important buffs can vanish right under that target display. But even if you notice it, you have just 2 or 3 seconds before it hits you. It might be survivable with BFI most of the time, but with one or two crits I call bull**** even on that. I have died to the torp spread in an Assault Cruiser with 59k hull and 45% kinetic resist. BFI on top of that will only add another 4% or so.

(Also counters need to be available to everyone, so BFI or Lt. level abilities are all that might be acceptable counters. Stuff like AuxtoSif3 or Aceton Beam 3 or Subnuke aren't proper counters because not every ship/captain type has access to them and with the current match making you can't be sure the team has them available.)
I don't know what's wrong with your BFI, but my FACR runs with 47% kinetic resist, and when I hit BFI, it jumps up to 70%. I then pop an EPtS3 and TT1, and her torp spreads do almost nothing. I have actually survived 5 TS3s one on top of the other in rapid succession using just that combination. I had to hit an Aux2SIF halfway through the 3rd one, but after that, my kinetic resist was around 72% (almost capped), so it did almost nothing (or what it did do, my passive hull regen and the HE1 I hit partway through #4 picked up easily).

Even her crits don't hurt that much. You just need to spec heavily into kinetic resistance. I always cringe when I see people running full Electroceramic hull armor, and then getting torped into oblivion. If anything, you should run more kinetic resistance, because the main damage from Borg in this game DOESN'T come from their BAs. It comes from their torps and cutting beams, which are KINETIC damage. So... stack the monotanium. Most of my builds run at least 45% kinetic resist, specifically for that purpose.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 381
# 24
03-16-2013, 03:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
I don't know what's wrong with your BFI, but my FACR runs with 47% kinetic resist, and when I hit BFI, it jumps up to 70%. I then pop an EPtS3 and TT1, and her torp spreads do almost nothing. I have actually survived 5 TS3s one on top of the other in rapid succession using just that combination. I had to hit an Aux2SIF halfway through the 3rd one, but after that, my kinetic resist was around 72% (almost capped), so it did almost nothing (or what it did do, my passive hull regen and the HE1 I hit partway through #4 picked up easily).

Even her crits don't hurt that much. You just need to spec heavily into kinetic resistance. I always cringe when I see people running full Electroceramic hull armor, and then getting torped into oblivion. If anything, you should run more kinetic resistance, because the main damage from Borg in this game DOESN'T come from their BAs. It comes from their torps and cutting beams, which are KINETIC damage. So... stack the monotanium. Most of my builds run at least 45% kinetic resist, specifically for that purpose.
I've not had a problem with her torpedo spread for a while, but she will sometiimg dr-cloak right in top of me and I'll die instantly even tho she hasn't hit me with anything. This only happens when she is firing her radiation beam, but I explode before she has even fired it. Kind of frustrating since I pride myself on not getting killed.


U.S.S. Mary Celeste
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,359
# 25
03-16-2013, 03:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
because the main damage from Borg in this game DOESN'T come from their BAs.
except most borg ships also use cannons, which can get in the 20K range per shot when the damage decides to spike out of control
Quote:
Originally Posted by sander233 View Post
Klingons use bathtubs as a severe form punishment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldkirkfan View Post
"You sniveling petaQ!!! If you are late for your shift one more time, you will spend two hours in the bathtub!!."

"WITH SOAP!!"
Lieutenant
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 62
# 26
03-16-2013, 08:12 AM
Yes, Donatra can make things tough:

13:03:14:06:42:52.5:: Donatra's Ship,C[418001 Mission_Raidisode03_Donatra_Borg_Scimitar],,*,Zetara,P[3588520@5422645 Zetara@alhucemas],Photon Torpedo - Salvo III,Pn.Lh63531,Shield,,-4508.84,-23392.5
13:03:14:06:42:52.5:: Donatra's Ship,C[418001Mission_Raidisode03_Donatra_Borg_Scimitar],,*,Zetara,P[3588520@5422645 Zetara@alhucemas],Photon Torpedo - Salvo III,Pn.Lh63531,Kinetic,,2599.16,33110.1
13:03:14:06:42:53.1:: Donatra's Ship,C[418001 Mission_Raidisode03_Donatra_Borg_Scimitar],,*,Zetara,P[3588520@5422645 Zetara@alhucemas],Photon Torpedo - Salvo III,Pn.Lh63531,Shield,,-2335.21,-11672.5
13:03:14:06:42:53.1:: Donatra's Ship,C[418001 Mission_Raidisode03_Donatra_Borg_Scimitar],,*,Zetara,P[3588520@5422645 Zetara@alhucemas],Photon Torpedo - Salvo III,Pn.Lh63531,Kinetic,,12419.4,30690.2

13:03:03:21:24:26.3:: Donatra's Ship,C[2140 Mission_Raidisode03_Donatra_Borg_Scimitar],,*,Zetara,P[3588520@5422645 Zetara@alhucemas],Photon Torpedo - Spread III,Pn.Bagzo81,Shield,,-3174.8,-8437.02
13:03:03:21:24:26.3:: Donatra's Ship,C[2140 Mission_Raidisode03_Donatra_Borg_Scimitar],,*,Zetara,P[3588520@5422645 Zetara@alhucemas],Photon Torpedo - Spread III,Pn.Bagzo81,Kinetic,,937.446,26473.2
13:03:03:21:24:26.9:: Donatra's Ship,C[2140 Mission_Raidisode03_Donatra_Borg_Scimitar],,*,Zetara,P[3588520@5422645 Zetara@alhucemas],Photon Torpedo - Spread III,Pn.Bagzo81,Kinetic,,9318.54,26315.3



Some other (but not all of them) funny ways to die:

13:03:04:00:51:22.0::Cube,C[5296 Space_Borg_Battleship_Raidisode],Heavy Plasma Torpedo,C[5475 Plasma_Torpedo_Highyield_R2_Borg],Zetara,P[3588520@5422645 Zetara@alhucemas],Plasma Torpedo - Heavy II,Pn.Tlxdjz,Shield,,-11525.2,-65412
13:03:04:00:51:22.0::Cube,C[5296 Space_Borg_Battleship_Raidisode],Heavy Plasma Torpedo,C[5475 Plasma_Torpedo_Highyield_R2_Borg],Zetara,P[3588520@5422645 Zetara@alhucemas],Plasma Torpedo - Heavy II,Pn.Tlxdjz,Kinetic,,7268,92585.4
13:03:04:00:51:22.0::Cube,C[5296 Space_Borg_Battleship_Raidisode],Heavy Plasma Torpedo,C[5475 Plasma_Torpedo_Highyield_R2_Borg],Zetara,P[3588520@5422645 Zetara@alhucemas],Plasma Torpedo - Heavy II,Pn.Tlxdjz,Plasma,,1001.89,1320.21

13:03:03:21:07:59.5::I.K.S. Ogang,C[120944 Space_Klingon_Rival_Fleet_Alert_Dreadnought_2],,*,Zetara,P[3588520@5422645 Zetara@alhucemas],Warp Core Breach,Pn.X9p5ua,Shield,,-1892.63,-8179.16
13:03:03:21:07:59.5::I.K.S. Ogang,C[120944 Space_Klingon_Rival_Fleet_Alert_Dreadnought_2],,*,Zetara,P[3588520@5422645 Zetara@alhucemas],Warp Core Breach,Pn.X9p5ua,Kinetic,Kill,50986.3,75369.6

13:03:04:03:04:15.9::I.K.S. Ogang,C[170835 Space_Klingon_Rival_Fleet_Alert_Dreadnought_2],,*,Zetara,P[3588520@5422645 Zetara@alhucemas],Warp Core Breach,Pn.X9p5ua,Shield,,-7373.77,-41850.3
13:03:04:03:04:15.9::I.K.S. Ogang,C[170835 Space_Klingon_Rival_Fleet_Alert_Dreadnought_2],,*,Zetara,P[3588520@5422645 Zetara@alhucemas],Warp Core Breach,Pn.X9p5ua,Kinetic,,4650.04,59235.7


* Note there are no crits.

Last edited by alhucemas; 03-16-2013 at 08:23 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
# 27
03-16-2013, 08:30 AM
Those are normal damage hits.


Wait till you see a 200k damage normal plasma torpedo in elite stf from the borg. Or a 50k normal heavy plasma cannon hit from the borg cube or gate hit you 6 times in a row. Normally those weapons should do 10 to 25k damage per torp and 6oo to 800dmg per hvy plasma hit... but they superspike for some ungodly unknown reason.
http://media.tumblr.com/160cacdb395f8340dac90864182ebe16/tumblr_inline_mx9yxhItkb1qg9pkt.jpg
Lieutenant
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 62
# 28
03-16-2013, 08:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller View Post
Those are normal damage hits.


Wait till you see a 200k damage normal plasma torpedo in elite stf from the borg. Or a 50k normal heavy plasma cannon hit from the borg cube or gate hit you 6 times in a row. Normally those weapons should do 10 to 25k damage per torp and 6oo to 800dmg per hvy plasma hit... but they superspike for some ungodly unknown reason.
I only play elite. Those are simply some of the last logs I have.

I will check that though.

Last edited by alhucemas; 03-16-2013 at 08:49 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 29
03-16-2013, 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowfang240 View Post
except most borg ships also use cannons, which can get in the 20K range per shot when the damage decides to spike out of control
Wrong. Only boss class ships use cannons, and only one (not including donatra, who uses wide angle dual heavy cannons as well). It's called a "Heavy Plasma Cannon" and it's average damage per hit is around the 7k mark, with occasional spikes of 20-30k. But if you have even ONE electroceramic/two neutroniums, they don't hurt much.

The majority of damage from the Borg is still from their plasma torps, therefore still kinetic.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,359
# 30
03-16-2013, 04:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
Wrong. Only boss class ships use cannons, and only one (not including donatra, who uses wide angle dual heavy cannons as well). It's called a "Heavy Plasma Cannon" and it's average damage per hit is around the 7k mark, with occasional spikes of 20-30k. But if you have even ONE electroceramic/two neutroniums, they don't hurt much.

The majority of damage from the Borg is still from their plasma torps, therefore still kinetic.
and what about the assimilated klingon ships from cure? those use cannons too, so it's not just bosses
Quote:
Originally Posted by sander233 View Post
Klingons use bathtubs as a severe form punishment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldkirkfan View Post
"You sniveling petaQ!!! If you are late for your shift one more time, you will spend two hours in the bathtub!!."

"WITH SOAP!!"
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