Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,052
# 21
03-14-2013, 10:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberglum11 View Post
I dont mean to nit-pick but one could easily debate that the KDF designs came first, and they based the Fed versions off of Korath/Krenn ones..?
Considering at launch the Klingons were using Federation Transporter Effects and are still using Federation Tricorders, even on New Romulus Klingons are using Federation Medical equipment
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/399...2111418415.jpg
...there is overwhelming evidence stuff is copied in one direction only.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 102
# 22
03-14-2013, 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberglum11 View Post
I dont mean to nit-pick but one could easily debate that the KDF designs came first, and they based the Fed versions off of Korath/Krenn ones..?
That's not an unfair line of thought, though I'd argue if the KDF designs came first, then the more offensively-oriented, cannon wielding Temporal Destroyer would be the default ship (the one that came out of the lockbox), and the Temporal Science Vessel would be the deviation (the one that was posted in the Lobi store).
However, as far as I can tell, the Wells-class and the Aeon-type (the Federation time-ship and time-shuttle) are actually derrived from Star Trek cannon. I can find no indication of the Krenn or Korath having existed anywhere outside of Star Trek Online.

Quote:
Originally Posted by misterde3 View Post
Considering at launch the Klingons were using Federation Transporter Effects and are still using Federation Tricorders, even on New Romulus Klingons are using Federation Medical equipment
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/399...2111418415.jpg
...there is overwhelming evidence stuff is copied in one direction only.
Well, to play nit-picking devil's advocate here, the Federation does get some KDF stuff. The Defiant retrofit and the Galaxy Dreadnought both have KDF-style cloaking devices (though both ships demonstrated that capability in their respective shows, so take that as you will), and the last two lockboxes have featured cross-factional consoles. I'd rather not get into a Nadion Pulse vs. Bio-Neural Warhead argument in this thread, mind you, but my point is that the copying does cut the other way from time to time. And that's not necessarily a problem, if it's done sparingly.
I wish to re-emphasise those last words, though: if it's done sparingly.
And therein lies the problem. At least, part of it.

(As for the tricorders and medical probe: come on, man-- Conservation of Props is practically a fundamental law of the Star Trek universe! )
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,052
# 23
03-14-2013, 02:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by miri2 View Post
(As for the tricorders and medical probe: come on, man-- Conservation of Props is practically a fundamental law of the Star Trek universe! )
http://www.yourprops.com/movieprops/...-Tricorder.jpg

Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,158
# 24
03-16-2013, 07:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirlettia View Post
Garbage Scow is already taken so we cant have that one ^.^

https://ssl-sto.s3.amazonaws.com/sto...a_type1_02.jpg
That's not a garbage scow. That's just garbage.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 5,836
# 25
03-16-2013, 12:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsurutafan01 View Post

C-Store ship... probably not long after that countdown timer hits 0.
I certainly hope you're right on that one!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberglum11 View Post
I dont mean to nit-pick but one could easily debate that the KDF designs came first, and they based the Fed versions off of Korath/Krenn ones..?
Yes, this must have been the case, seeing how them both have cloaks and can mount DHC.

But on another note guys, I know that it's not a C-Store ship, but the Kamarag/K'maj are really not a copy of the Ambassador/Yamaguchi. The only thing they have in common is the Boff layout, they have differences in hull, shields, ability to mount DHC, cloak and turn rate. Not to mention that the Ambassador was already existing canon design, while they made a new design so the can have the Kamarag/K'maj in game for the KDF. I can name quite a few dedicated KDF players that were asking for a sci-oriented Klingon design in game for some time now and wellcomed these with open hands.
I know, the disparity we have is terrible, but we need to give credit where credit is due and not disregard everything.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 102
# 26
03-16-2013, 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shpoks View Post
But on another note guys, I know that it's not a C-Store ship, but the Kamarag/K'maj are really not a copy of the Ambassador/Yamaguchi. The only thing they have in common is the Boff layout, they have differences in hull, shields, ability to mount DHC, cloak and turn rate. Not to mention that the Ambassador was already existing canon design, while they made a new design so the can have the Kamarag/K'maj in game for the KDF. I can name quite a few dedicated KDF players that were asking for a sci-oriented Klingon design in game for some time now and wellcomed these with open hands.
I know, the disparity we have is terrible, but we need to give credit where credit is due and not disregard everything.
Y'know what, you're right. They're not exact copies of each other, and there are a lot of differences between the two, which I really didn't notice at first glance.
I still maintain that the design philosophy behind the Kamarag was "let's take the Ambassador-class and make it all Klingony," but Cryptic/PWE really did change a lot more around than I first noticed. Practically the only stats that are the same between them are their BOff layout, their console allocation, and their shield modifier.
And you are right, it does fill a much-needed role in the KDF, since not everyone is willing to wrestle with the Vo'quv's endearingly atrocious handling (or to fork over C-points for the almost-working Varanus support ship like I did) in order to get some science powers.
I was being a little over-critical of the Kamarag, and that wasn't fair to it, or to the Dev team.

That said, the Kamarag is still an example of borrowing from one faction to hand over to the other. But, looking over the stat differences a little closer this time, it may actually be one of the better examples of this being done right than of it being done lazily, as I had cited it earlier.
The over-use of copying and borrowing primed me for what I readily admit was an unfair reaction.

Since my Federation character's flying an Ambassador right now, I should probably dust off my Kamarag and see what it flies like. That should shut me up. : P

EDIT: Just flew a run of Empire Defense and a Borg Invasion encounter in a dead-simple Kamarag lay-out. It definitely flies much differently than the Ambassador-- the improved Turn Rate and much lower Inertia Rating makes it almost agile, while at the same time sliding all over the freaking place like it was wearing Frosted Boots. It's a very different ship to try to handle, so I'm now much more inclined to agree with you, Shpoks.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going back to my Varanus. .:|

Last edited by miri2; 03-16-2013 at 04:55 PM. Reason: Emphasis added for clarity. Then added the clearly marked Edit.
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