Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,591
# 11
03-16-2013, 11:45 PM
Denial.

What?

It's denial, imho.

What?

It's denial. People wanting STO to be something other than it is. But it is what it is.

STO is full of gimmicks. STO is full of RNG. STO is full of things that can be spammed (and much of that can cause performance degradation). STO is full of minor and major bugs. STO is full of unintended consequences arrived at by various combinations of abilities and gear. STO is full of extreme yo-yo mechanics. The list goes on and on, why STO in general is not the friendliest of games when it comes to trying to PvP.

People want it to be about skill. There's just too many things going on for it really to be about that. Oh, no doubt there's the skill involved in dealing with what STO is full of...ahem...but lots of folks want it to be more like a simple FPS.

And that's denial. Because that's not STO.

The longer the list of banned things, the more in denial the person is about the game they're playing.

Course, there's themed things - which I think folks would have to agree are different. They're themed - that's not the same as trying to remove things because one feels they ruin the PvP experience or reduce the skill involved or whatever... they're just themed. It's not a case of wishing something wasn't in the game, it's a case of pointing to the shows/movies and saying it just wasn't there.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 677
# 12
03-17-2013, 01:30 AM
It's not denial, it's nostalgia.

The KT league worked fine as long as it's only limitations were "no more than three per captain type" (or was it "at least one of each"?) and the requirement to play only one character per player during the entire season. Those of us who experienced that golden age of tournaments just want to have it back.

Once additional rules came (banning the then top problems FAW and SS, and allowing a free "play whenever you want during a fixed week" match schedule instead of the previous fixed time on saturdays) and too many new fleets joined (that sometimes also refused to accept the ground/space mix style of the KT league), the league collapsed. This was not just because of the new rules, but also because the game changed in a way that made these rules "necessary".


What we need is that Cryptic finally understands that the current state of PVP is such that nobody in their right mind would really want to play in a completely unrestricted tournament where some teams want to win at all costs. Unfortunately their has been no sign so far that Cryptic understands this fundamental problem - and much less indication that they would be willing to actually address this issue.
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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,033
# 13
03-17-2013, 01:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkfader1988 View Post
Bringing together all the fleet leaders sounds diplomatic, democratic, or whatever you call it. And it all sounds very decent when they are here together on the same voice server.

Unfortunately what happens next is that topics that has been discussed and agreed upon is being discussed internally in the relevant fleets, being twisted (Intentionally or unintentionally, that doesn't really matter), is being relayed back to other people and fleets, etc. you know where that is leading to.
Oh I did not mean at all that the fleets would gather and discuss to create the rules. Rather they would choose an authority that would create the rules they would all follow. Not a true democracy. Nor an oligarchy which isn't entirely accurate but is what currently exists sorta.

The Fleets would gather and say hey, that *insert person/fleet here* seems to have a firm grasp on things and seems to be unbiased, open minded, and mature. They then agree to abide by the terms determined by that person wither they like them or not. Hopeful both in the queue and in the tornie but that's really hoping for a lot.

Would it really be that difficult to find someone or a group that meets those criteria? You could even create a panel of say three where two must agree to have something banned. It's not like their is a great mystery as to what is broken OP, just the normal OP and OP if min/max pushed by a team that is the issue.

For that matter how much EC would I need to offer up as a prize to get atleast 4 teams fielded with the following rules?

1) No obviously bugged consoles (EMP Burst)
2) Limit 4 hanger pets
3) Limit 1 unique activatable console per console per team (meaning one can carry AMS, but not all 5 members can. You could have an AMS and a Iso on the same ship though)
4) Limit 1 unique weapon per weapon per team (as above)

I'd also say there are several posters on this boards that would foot the bill. maicake716, mimey2, thishorizon would make for a great tribunal so to speak I would think. DDIS, redricky, thissler are another three off the top of my head. Not to mention nearly anyone in this thread. Although fleet bias may get in the way.

But no one can really do it until a significant portion of the PvP community grants that authority to someone.

Last edited by bareel; 03-17-2013 at 02:03 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 460
# 14
03-17-2013, 02:49 AM
Here's a tournament that will work:

Danube Runabouts/Toron Shuttles only
No c-store consoles
Battery devices only

Huzah, a fair (but boring) tournament!
Joined: January 2010

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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,648
# 15
03-17-2013, 03:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maicake716 View Post
that sounds like every one off "themed" event i host...

i hope you werent rolling your eyes at me -sad inquisitor- i just try to host things that are "rp"ish
nothing personal, but really its no doffs thats the big one with my. ether no tech doffs or no damage control doffs, the builds don't function without them, they look obsurd without those doffs working thier magic. and energy type, weapons are a big investment, and wile i nearly always 'RP' with the correct faction weapons, there are exceptions.

i dont have any lower tier fed ships, but i guess i do on my kdf. heres my chance to double up on 2 AtD on this cruiser i guess, but wait that kdf doesn't use disruptor. so it all gets to be to much trouble
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,545
# 16
03-17-2013, 03:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
It's not denial, it's nostalgia.
I can completely understand that , but in a way I think 'themed' matches are for that .
Plus as others have said , the list of banned things seem to follow either personal taste or a belief in an item's 'broken-ness' -- neither is often shared by everyone .

For example , my simple version of no-no's would be :
No Bug ships.
No pets .

* with an optional ban on more than 3 of the same Class of Captain per team -- so you don't face 5 Sci's or 5 Tac's

It's simple , easy , doable -- but ... I fully expect players w/pet builds or Bug ships to object .

** to make myself clear , the two no-no's I've selected are MY pet peeves in PVP , so I'm not making any un-biased statements here .
Instead it's my attempt to 'take back PVP to a point where it all went wrong' (IMHO) .
STO will be out of Beta in another 2-4 years ???
... you know after another 3 story arc remasters, crafting revamp, skills revamp, PVP upgrade ...
*note : the 2-4 year guesstimate came out of comparing Cryptic's Dev speed and that of a snail . Sadly the snail won .
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 528
# 17
03-17-2013, 04:07 AM
In response to our tournament thread, i've added that our rules are not completely close to eventually changes. We can try to make a run and see if it's "fascinating".
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,325
# 18
03-17-2013, 09:34 AM
Hmm...

Hold onto that thought, Naz.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 19
03-17-2013, 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
nothing personal, but really its no doffs thats the big one with my. ether no tech doffs or no damage control doffs, the builds don't function without them, they look obsurd without those doffs working thier magic. and energy type, weapons are a big investment, and wile i nearly always 'RP' with the correct faction weapons, there are exceptions.

i dont have any lower tier fed ships, but i guess i do on my kdf. heres my chance to double up on 2 AtD on this cruiser i guess, but wait that kdf doesn't use disruptor. so it all gets to be to much trouble

thats why i dont like doffs for my themed events. they alone can sway a battle to one side by themselves.

my first themed event allowed them and it was killer, tier 1 ships using shield draining tractor doffs to completely drain the shields off another ship....

rediculous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
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Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 78
# 20
03-17-2013, 09:43 AM
Why do you guys want so bad to the tournament to be noticeble?
Why not just make a tournament !
Who want to enter , enters who doesnt well bad for them... do you need PWE or Cryptic to Allow it? no...
Who is preventing from us players from making matches with the rules we want? no one...
Tell me guys how many matches have you done with your own rules? thousands...
So make a tournament for the interested fleet who agreeds good who doesnt agreed bad for them cya next time...
If cryptic doesnt want you guys to post on this forum well just make one for the tourny, theres so many free forums out there... and for a tourny its enough...
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