Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,694
# 11
03-17-2013, 12:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoggymack22 View Post
I think Geko's running out of ideas, but that the lockbox and c-store model is continually pressuring him to make newer, more enticing ships available. So he's stuck, and has painted himself into a corner since the Excelsior was first released.........
I too think Geko is getting to a point where all future ship will be completely outside the normal ship boundaries. The Kumari is clearly an upgrade to the defiant setup, so I wonder how longutil we see similar "upgrades" to other ships and classes? How odd this all happens when fleets start to get to T5.

Unfortunately, I think these days Cryptic wouldn't be satisfied with simply selling ship skins. At least not at what we would consider a reasonable price, it'd the EV suit all over again!

When he talked about the Regent not selling as well as expected... it really shows how metric-centric Cryptic has become. They aren't even considering what the playerbase might think or want and are focusing purely on past behavior. Its obvious to players why it didn't sell as well. Most players that would want one already had an Ody variant they preferred, or are waiting for their fleet to get to T5 or buying it off a T5 fleet. In fact the only reason to get a Regent now is for the 180 Torp! If that torp was a C-store only unlock you'd better believe almost every player that has a cruiser would get it, provided it wasn't a cash gouge like the 180 missiles in the lobi store are. But I guess that's the thing isn't it?

Perhaps cosmetic "mission pods" and "attack bits" that you could freely add to your ship's model would be a solution, but once again I'd say Cryptic would be unlikely to want to have actual "micro" transactions that weren't key sales.

Last edited by skyranger1414; 03-17-2013 at 01:03 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 336
# 12
03-17-2013, 12:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyranger1414 View Post
An armor slot is an interesting idea but I think most people posting are missing what's really wrong here.

Cruiser pilots aren't upset that their ships aren't tanky enough, they're upset they're so slow and do less damage than escorts. An armor slot would only serve to make a cruiser tankier, even if there was a "light armor" option reducing defenses for extra speed and turning it wouldn't be a total solution.
But think of it like this: if cruisers were to be more naturally tanky (and not because of their abilities) then it would be far easier to build for damage without having to severely compromisetheir durability. That being said, this doesn't solve everything wrong about cruisers. If EPS actually meant a sot regarding weapon power usage or if beam arrays were decent weapons, then it would be a different question altogether.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,584
# 13
03-17-2013, 12:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyranger1414 View Post
The Kumari is clearly an upgrade to the defiant setup...
No, its not.

The Defiant have a higher turn rate and far more survivability with the only one you can compare it, the Tactical version, as the others you cannot really compare then since they have different BO layouts.

The Kumari is no Defiant, handles very differently.

Also if you want to talk about clear upgrades we already had then with the Vesta being a better Intrepid, not the Kumari/Defiant as the Vesta and Intrepid handle similarly.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,461
# 14
03-17-2013, 01:03 PM
How to continue to monetize STO while increasing the level cap and without adding another tier of ships: ship customization.

Warp Cores, Heavy Armor, Secondary Deflectors, Computer Upgrades, etc, etc, etc.

Where based on some previous comments, the Warp Cores and Computer Upgrades would be available to all ships - Cruisers(ish) would get Heavy Armor and Science Vessels(ish) would get Secondary Deflectors. Escorts(ish) already having DHCs, would not get a specific alternate upgrade. Of course, it's not that neat since there are hybrid vessels and non-Escorts that can use DHCs.

Still though, that particular discussion aside - I'm wondering if Geko's been playing EVE, eh?

Warp Cores and Computer Upgrades? Will we be looking at powergrid and CPU?

Is it going to be some form of EVElite? One need only take a quick look at the EVE Ship Equipment in the Item Database - to get a gist of where all of this could go, no?

The STO Hurricane, eh?

8 High Slots (4 Fore/4 Aft Weapons)
6 Low/4 Med Slots (10 console slots)
Powergrid (Warp Core)
CPU (Computer Upgrade)
Upgrade Hardpoint (Heavy Armor)

Looking at redoing some of the STO consoles - all sorts of goodies to go in those Low/Med/High Slots, eh? Don't forget Crafting Rep and all those wondrous blueprints/recipes?

With it being STO and not EVE...it would have to be more Pakled than spreadsheet... but is that where things are heading, eh?
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,694
# 15
03-17-2013, 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron View Post
No, its not.

The Defiant have a higher turn rate and far more survivability with the only one you can compare it, the Tactical version, as the others you cannot really compare then since they have different BO layouts.

The Kumari is no Defiant, handles very differently.

Also if you want to talk about clear upgrades we already had then with the Vesta being a better Intrepid, not the Kumari/Defiant as the Vesta and Intrepid handle similarly.
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but the Defiant onlyhas a +1 turn rate. I was looking at it more as a successor as the most glass cannon escort. But you're right, the other variants are far less glass canon.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 170
# 16
03-17-2013, 01:13 PM
With the proposed "Armour Slot" being an answer, what is the question?

There have been a lot of discussions on why cruisers are deficient in the balance equation, but there is remarkably little universally agreed on, with turn rate and the weakness of choice in ensign Engineering powers being about it. Other items like relative durability of the types of ships, damage output, power output, and crew mechanics are far more fractiously debated.

If the demands of some in this thread are listened to, then this change will do nothing to the relative durability of ship types. It won't even change the relative value of Engineering console slots, as the freed up slots apply to everyone and, ironically enough, Escorts get either equal or greater utility than cruisers from the remaining members of the current selection.

Which leaves ... what?
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,293
# 17
03-17-2013, 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Escorts(ish) already having DHCs, would not get a specific alternate upgrade.
Why would they leave escorts out of the party? The idea is to make money right? Give Escorts something too.
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,293
# 18
03-17-2013, 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyranger1414 View Post
Unfortunately, I think these days Cryptic wouldn't be satisfied with simply selling ship skins. At least not at what we would consider a reasonable price, it'd the EV suit all over again!
Absolutely agree. They started down that path of selling ships and each new ship needs something special so there's no real turning back.

Still back then, back when we were all far more innocent, I bought new uniforms like nobody's business. And new bridge packs. And new ship skins. So I could customize my looks. A lot of folks did that. Heh.

Quote:
When he talked about the Regent not selling as well as expected... it really shows how metric-centric Cryptic has become. They aren't even considering what the playerbase might think or want and are focusing purely on past behavior.
Yeah, they kind of seem to miss the bigger point about the Reagent. The Excelsior already existed. As did a zillion Cruisers (with the Ambassador still on the way). I wouldn't expect a small upgrade to the Assault Cruiser to sell well that long after the Excelsior already made the Assault Cruiser a middle of the road option. People who had the AC might buy it. But by that time so many people already moved past the AC. And those with an Excel wouldn't have needed it at all.


We're now firmly on this path, and Geko does have to come up with something. Armor slots? It's an idea I guess. But it doesn't really address the overall problem. Just the short term one, which is the one I guess is more important to the company (more sales).
Rihannsu
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 282
# 19
03-17-2013, 01:22 PM
I've been in favor of and sometimes argued for armor slots since beta so I'm all for the addition.

I can also see cruiser only armor since we get DHC as Tacs and in the same vein of thought I can see a second deflector or even sci only shields.

Additionally what I would also love to see is a general universal slot that can take any console (eng, sci or tac) added to ships. It would add a another degree of customization to the game for players methinks. It would also give Cryptic more design room for ships in the future much as the universal BO slot does.

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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 146
# 20
03-17-2013, 01:23 PM
I just have to comment to those using double neutronium that you are wasting your potential... get a monotanium and an ablative, takes care of most damage types you will deal with at end game and show better gains.

For extra rocket sauce go with what I call "The Trinity", neutronum, monotanium and ablative.

As far as the specializations that are being mentioned, I am not sure whether to like this idea or not... as it stands I am pretty happy with the builds I have now and it seems changing the setups now would make everyone have to rethink their builds.

Sort of like when they forced the respec at F2P launch and made it so you HAVE to spend ground skillpoints, its kind of a bad idea.
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