Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 191
# 11
03-18-2013, 05:28 PM
A torp in the front is pretty good to keep. They do offer some really good spike DPS after your cannons melt down the shields and/or used with torp spread in concert with cannon scatter volley, can really dish out some really good AoE DPS. I use the Wide Angle Quantum launcher from the Regent on mine.

An alternative to escort players that dont like the cliche cannon boat can also opt to be a torpedo/mine boat due to their high speed and high turn rates.


As far as consumables go, you may hate em, but they can, have and do make all the world of difference in clutch situations. I use Deuterium Surplus from the Rescue Operation daily in the Eta Eridani sector. Those along with Evasive maneuvers (with doffs that reduce Evasive cooldown) keeps me flying faster than everyone else the majority of the time which also vastly increases my defense. I also use Shield Batteries a lot in conjunction with EPtS, which greatly increases my shield regen rate for my MACO resilient shields. On my Regent I use Weapons batt, shield batts and Aux batts. Being a beam boat, broadsiding eats weapon power so the weapon batts really help there. The Aux batts really, really helps with Aux to Bat and then EPtS, EPtW and Aux to SIF.

Also I recommend reading this thread: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=192243

Once you learn how to setup and use keybinds there is a LOT LESS clicking and you can utilize consumables a lot more easily.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,014
# 12
03-18-2013, 05:36 PM
Your weapons fire in order. Cannons all have the same firing cycle .5 seconds firing 1 second cooldown, all cannons fire twice in that cycle other than DHCs which fire once. That means your first DHC fires at 125 power, the second at 113, and so on. Your front DHCs will only get penalized by rear turrets if the order of fire gets messed up in which case stop shooting for a second and get them back on track. Beams on the other hand reserve their power for a 4 second firing cycle and WILL reduce the damage of your beams (this is why cutting beam is actually a bad idea on escorts typically).

The Torp vs 4th DHC is arguable. Each will outperform the other depending on the exact engagement and ship used on.

The two set options are simply Maco shield + 2 piece borg, OR 3 piece Maco. The two piece borg grants significant passive hull regen and a chance to proc a hull heal. 3 piece maco gives DPS boost to DHCs (3% ish) along with other binnies. The shield grants stupid high resists and power boosts when your shot at, and if your not being shot at your build isn't that good.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 54
# 13
03-18-2013, 05:36 PM
Very cool. See, I don't mind you sharing your setup there because you went into (a little bit) about your decision making process on some of those points. And it is sounding more and more like I'm going to plan on using the MACO set. Course, now I'm wondering if there's MACO and 'adapted' MACO. Confounded names! Of course, this may have been a foregone conclusion ahead of time-I was planning on using the MACO equipment after I heard about the energy characteristics anyways. BUT I wanted to compare it to the other things available, see what you guys on the forums thought.

I've come to realize that I *really* need better DOFF's in my Active slots, but y'know, that whole 'just starting VA career' thing. A key point to thank you on is that I had no real idea of what to put there. A Warp Core Engineer is a great idea. I just need to figure out where I can pressgan.. I mean shangha... I mean conscrip... voluntell... err... RECRUIT, YES! That's the one.

Thank you, diogene0. I appreciate the insight into your approach and theory.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 191
# 14
03-18-2013, 05:42 PM
Yes, Doffs do play a big role in your setups also.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 54
# 15
03-18-2013, 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
and if your not being shot at your build isn't that good.
About that. I get shot at alot. Probably because of Stupid Player Tricks(tm), but I tend to get aggro. I imagine if I actually spec'd into threat, I could reliably tank.

Also, @bareel: They really punish Beams that hard? I mean, their DPS is already lower-they have to be reduced through weapon power reserve as well? That's just brutal. It's no wonder the Cruiser players are so upset.

...and I just discovered that EPS consoles have no impact on DPS due to a mechanic change made back in 2010... Well, I guess I have an open console now...

Last edited by tau41; 03-18-2013 at 06:04 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 16
03-18-2013, 06:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tau41 View Post
About that. I get shot at alot. Probably because of Stupid Player Tricks(tm), but I tend to get aggro. I imagine if I actually spec'd into threat, I could reliably tank.

Also, @bareel: They really punish Beams that hard? I mean, their DPS is already lower-they have to be reduced through weapon power reserve as well? That's just brutal. It's no wonder the Cruiser players are so upset.
No beams are doing fine, it's just that most people don't want to play a support role. And beams have secret tricks, like doing some significant damage even if you fire them at max range, while cannons are pathetic if you do that. Cannons also have huge drawbacks, you may have to fly at 0 speed or backward (defenceless) occasionally when you face slow enemies. When it's a fat and slow boss, you'll see you may need to keep flying at max speed, which isn't ideal when you have such a narrow firing arc. Beams allow you to tank and dps really easily.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 54
# 17
03-18-2013, 06:24 PM
So then... you might say there are more notable trade-offs than people commonly give credit for? Because... the impression I've gotten *in the forums* is that beams are trash, whereas in game, I've felt DHC's really under perform, particularly with their high recycle time.

It's starting to seem like the Real World DPS vs Sim DPS arguments I used to get into in WoW.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,014
# 18
03-18-2013, 06:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
No beams are doing fine, it's just that most people don't want to play a support role.
The only support worth noting is APB increasing an entire teams damage. I can tank everything just fine in my escort, CC is unneeded as I just destroy the enemy before it can cause any problems.


Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
And beams have secret tricks, like doing some significant damage even if you fire them at max range, while cannons are pathetic if you do that.
Yes it is true cannons only deal 40% of their damage at max range. Beams only deal 64% of their damage at max range IIRC. Guess what, the cannons still win mate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
Cannons also have huge drawbacks, you may have to fly at 0 speed or backward (defenceless) occasionally when you face slow enemies.
False. Going backward you still have positive defense score. It is called the Yo-Yo maneuver 1/4th throttle forward, 1/4th reverse and always a positive defense.


Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
When it's a fat and slow boss, you'll see you may need to keep flying at max speed, which isn't ideal when you have such a narrow firing arc. Beams allow you to tank and dps really easily.
And again False. It is called 'skin dancing' originally designed by the Membari. You simply fly INTO the giant target full speed and slide upon it's surface.

Sorry mate when you actually learn all the systems and mechanics beams are flat out junk unless you hamstring yourself (IE loose tank advantage) by massive power overcapping and then what is really the point? Weapon power resistance benefits both weapon types.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tau41 View Post
So then... you might say there are more notable trade-offs than people commonly give credit for? Because... the impression I've gotten *in the forums* is that beams are trash, whereas in game, I've felt DHC's really under perform, particularly with their high recycle time.

It's starting to seem like the Real World DPS vs Sim DPS arguments I used to get into in WoW.
Yes and no. This game is easy, so insanely easy that the end game content (Estfs) has been completed with optional by players in shuttles. Because of that their are alot of players who do not distinguish between 'viable' and 'optimal'.

I look at optimal. I have more VAs than I care to admit, have flown more ships/types/setups than I can recall, and have come to a simple undeniable conclusion. My Tac/F. Defiant is the most 'optimal' thing I can bring to 99.8% of the content in this game.

And if I put him in a Tac Andorian ship he would be about 2% more optimal for 95% of the content.

Last edited by bareel; 03-18-2013 at 06:36 PM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 54
# 19
03-18-2013, 07:22 PM
Bareel, that was a very interesting point to me-in fact, it's the precise answer I've been looking for concerning beams and cannons. Optimal vs viable. As you say, the content is so easy it can be done with optional objectives completed in shuttles, and that makes sense to me-other than cheap shots in Hive (which I'm starting to think are overcome a great deal with MACO shields), I can't really think of any reason why they wouldn't be able to be accomplished in shuttles. It's not as though the missions have time limits or death counters.

So when it comes down to 'this is faster, but there's no time limit', I always opt for fun and different. Still, I think I've heard enough in here to trade out my DC for that other DHC I was using, and possibly to mount up my other turret, though I am kicking around mounting up Quantum Mines too (I haven't played with mines at all yet). I might play around with a beam build just because, again, I love beams. It also sounds like a good match with my preferred run and gun play style, which cannons have made difficult, though the question here is if I can recover enough damage (there is a certain THRESHOLD of efficiency I like).

It sounds mostly like I'll go MACO 3. I'll probably buy the MACO mk X shield for now since it blows my Reman mk X out of the water.

My active duty roster is a mess, which... being as I don't have a huge selection of purple officers in all disciplines, sounds like normal. Learned of a few things I can do there to improve things greatly.

And the cannon vs torp issue is decided as a draw-different weapons for different situations.

Very useful information, thank you everyone.
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