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Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 314
# 11
03-19-2013, 05:22 AM
In the words of Tracy Jordan, I want to take that Neghvar out behind the middle school...

-Gen
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,836
# 12
03-19-2013, 09:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
namely the escorts.
The KDF doesn't have a single escort in its fleet.

The closest thing they have are Raptors.

Birds of Prey are NOT escorts. They are marauders. They have a different set of design rules that they have to adhere to. They have universal slots, and a battle cloak and less weapons than a ship of their tier is supposed to have. They also have much higher turning rates than any escort or raptor has.

These things have always been their own unique ship type. I'm not sure why people consistently confuse the BOP with an escort. The Raptor and its design standard is far more compatible with what the fed escorts have. Right down to the one fed escort that has a cloak, ends up being a mirror image of a raptor because of that.

It can't be because BoPs can equip dual cannons. So can battle cruisers and no one ever makes the mistake of comparing a Defiant to a Neg'Vahr.

It can't be because BoPs can turn well, because no Escort in the game has a BoP turn radius, not even the bug ship.

So what is it? Why do people keep equating BoPs with Escorts? The all universal consoles should at least be some tip off as to how flawed that comparison is.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 292
# 13
03-19-2013, 10:44 AM
Federation has two very good escorts :fleet defiant retrofit and kumari
Fleet defiant has 17 turn ratio ,kumari 16.both have 5 tac consoles kumari has 5 fore weapons above all other things.

I think that the a possible kdf escort could be:
1.) fleet somraw with 5 fore and 5 tactical consoles
2.) fleet somraw with 5 fore and enhanced turn rate to 17
3.) fleet somraw with 5 tactical consoles and enhanced turn rate to 17

kumari has the hybrid cannon-Dbb weapon aka wing cannon that can hit 95k and the shield stripping console while the the modified somraw will have only the cloak as an equivalent for all the kumari enhanced consoles.

The escorts that OP proposed are interesting but for somebody who is running DHC+DBB+torpedo as I do the tactical seating's are no enough.
Audiater et altera pars
"They gave away your leech, the only 5 tac console ship you have has a turn rate of 5, all of the Romulan ships have battle cloak and dont suffer the hull strength reduction of the BOPs."
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,521
# 14
03-19-2013, 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoggymack22 View Post
The KDF doesn't have a single escort in its fleet.

The closest thing they have are Raptors.

Birds of Prey are NOT escorts. They are marauders. They have a different set of design rules that they have to adhere to. They have universal slots, and a battle cloak and less weapons than a ship of their tier is supposed to have. They also have much higher turning rates than any escort or raptor has.

These things have always been their own unique ship type. I'm not sure why people consistently confuse the BOP with an escort. The Raptor and its design standard is far more compatible with what the fed escorts have. Right down to the one fed escort that has a cloak, ends up being a mirror image of a raptor because of that.

It can't be because BoPs can equip dual cannons. So can battle cruisers and no one ever makes the mistake of comparing a Defiant to a Neg'Vahr.

It can't be because BoPs can turn well, because no Escort in the game has a BoP turn radius, not even the bug ship.

So what is it? Why do people keep equating BoPs with Escorts? The all universal consoles should at least be some tip off as to how flawed that comparison is.
were exactly did i confuse anything? i talked about escorts/raptors, bops and then cruisers. 'namely escorts' at the beginning does not mean i am branding every single ship in the post an escort.

raptors are escorts with a bit inferior turn and a built in cloak. cant see any other difference. nobody confuses bops and escorts, not sure what your rageing at. the fleet scourge is a fed pattern escort on the kdf side, theres 1 pure escort
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,521
# 15
03-23-2013, 01:22 PM
don't let the kdf become a forgotten middle child, a bunch of fleet ships would be awful nice!
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,524
# 16
03-23-2013, 02:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoggymack22 View Post
The KDF doesn't have a single escort in its fleet.

The closest thing they have are Raptors.

Birds of Prey are NOT escorts. They are marauders. They have a different set of design rules that they have to adhere to. They have universal slots, and a battle cloak and less weapons than a ship of their tier is supposed to have. They also have much higher turning rates than any escort or raptor has.

These things have always been their own unique ship type. I'm not sure why people consistently confuse the BOP with an escort. The Raptor and its design standard is far more compatible with what the fed escorts have. Right down to the one fed escort that has a cloak, ends up being a mirror image of a raptor because of that.

It can't be because BoPs can equip dual cannons. So can battle cruisers and no one ever makes the mistake of comparing a Defiant to a Neg'Vahr.

It can't be because BoPs can turn well, because no Escort in the game has a BoP turn radius, not even the bug ship.

So what is it? Why do people keep equating BoPs with Escorts? The all universal consoles should at least be some tip off as to how flawed that comparison is.
The simple answer comes down to where a ship 'fits' in terms of role when you actually come out of the PvE into PvP. Raptors may be, technically, 'escorts' but they're not good at the role, BoPs otoh may not be as powerful as FedScorts, but they manage the "escort" role better than the ships that are technically supposed to BE escorts (aka Raptors).

In PuG matches, it's RARE to see a KDF Escort that isn't a Goomba or Bug ship-aka, it's a rarity to see Raptors at all. You're statistically more likely to see fifty-dollar Borts than FREE Raptors, the reasons for this come down to how an Escort is supposed to be played-

Fast, quick-turning, high-firepower and reliant on evasion instead of tanking. Raptors are faster than Cruisers, but the combo of the bad turn-pivot and lower-than-fed stats (and the sacrifice of hull, shields, power to balance a cloak that only engages out of combat, where you don't need it) mean that they're less acceptable versions of a "Light Tactical Cruiser" rather than effective Escorts.

The Bird of Prey, on the other hand, HAS turn rate and speed, IS able to apply firepower on-target AND avoid damage (mostly) in spite of having low hull, shields, fewer Bridge positions and fewer consoles and fewer weapons-they are ABLE to carry out the strike role that Escorts are SUPPOSED to provide.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 292
# 17
03-25-2013, 01:28 PM
I watched an episode from DS9 in which dahar master kor using a bop de-cloaks and kill several jhas while decloaked .In the end dies with honor to the last jhas but his death gives time to other ships from kdf formation to escape.
That is what I think it is a image of klingon spirit.Stay and fight in in open with your foes.( i know it is a movie but the spirit is there)
I think that kdf need's such a escort having among other things a bop skin just to close the gap between the game and the movie.
I will not speak about stats but it is time to make a really good escort-bop for kdf.All the kdf escorts until now were made especially to be under federation escorts.(fleet somraw now is good after the shield mod was fixed but it is under fleet defiant or kumari)
This bop-escort shoud be able to stand and fight a fleet defiant or a kumari and be equal to them.
Audiater et altera pars
"They gave away your leech, the only 5 tac console ship you have has a turn rate of 5, all of the Romulan ships have battle cloak and dont suffer the hull strength reduction of the BOPs."
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,836
# 18
03-25-2013, 01:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
The simple answer comes down to where a ship 'fits' in terms of role when you actually come out of the PvE into PvP. Raptors may be, technically, 'escorts' but they're not good at the role, BoPs otoh may not be as powerful as FedScorts, but they manage the "escort" role better than the ships that are technically supposed to BE escorts (aka Raptors).
BoPs are completely different. And the dev team has to make them adhere to a different standard of itemization and design budget. They're not escorts. Never have been.

If the federation had Raiders, nobody would fly the federation escorts.

Quote:
Fast, quick-turning, high-firepower and reliant on evasion instead of tanking.
Fed escorts don't turn as fast as BoPs. Have more firepower on some of them (5 tac consoles, one even has 5 forward weapons). Nothing on the fed side has the evasion ability of a battle cloak. And it pays a huge price in tanking for that.

BoPs are similar to Escorts in that they can equip DHCs. But so can a Vesta and a Galaxy X. None of them are anything like a BoP.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 736
# 19
03-30-2013, 02:03 AM
I'm hoping one day in the future they make a Fleet variant of the Orion Marauder.
The fleet Corsair is nice and all but I want an engy focused flight deck cruiser like all flight deck cruisers were until the fleet corsair came out.

I still fly the Marauder but feel like I'm loosing out by not having extra hull, shields and console slots that I could have.
Dislike the forum theme? Try THIS. Dislike the STO home page? Try THIS.
Devs, need Fleet Orion Marauder and Dacoit please! :-)

Using - Bulwark, Voth Fighter. Favs - Fleet Corsair, Mogh, Bastion, Nicor, JHEC, JAS
Some others - Orion Marauder, Chel Grett, Guramba, Risian Corvette, Risian Cruiser
Rihannsu
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 220
# 20
06-12-2013, 04:38 AM
I support this thread and all GLORY and HONOR it brings to Empire!
2010 is my join date.
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