Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,900
# 271
03-19-2013, 02:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyranger1414 View Post
Or maybe he's read the forums and has correctly interpreted what a very loud subset of people are asking for? Sometimes it seems like the very vocal minority want beams to be as powerful as DHCs. They will list a huge number of "lore" and "common sense" reasons why this should be so.
the lore or cannons was to put capital class firepower on support ships that couldnt house the massive array systems. ie to let a small defiant or soyuz hit like a sovereign.

but as far as a game mechanic goes that doesnt work where narrow firing arc is suppost to reduce time on target for a weapon with higher raw dps potential.

and the state ingame where small ships with dhc's like defiants & b'rels hit as hard as a patrol escort or qin raptor.
that being part of why i came to the conclusion the direntl comparison of beam vs dhc dps, may actually be balanced, with some other factor causing the disparity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redz4tw View Post
can you say attack pattern angry forumers 3?
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 292
# 272
03-19-2013, 02:36 PM
Beams AND Turrets need less power drain, after having a long discussion last night about my ship build we concluded that it was my Turrets sucking power, Turrets put out the very least damage and DPS in the game so one would think power levels would reflect that ...right?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 278
# 273
03-20-2013, 03:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
Weapon Power Display Lies

The UI cheats to put it simply. It refreshes it's display at a set time, not in reaction to things going on. That means the listed 'weapon power' you see is what the power was at for that mere portion of a second that your UI refreshed and is pretty much meaningless considering how many things are going on that effect it constantly along with latency.

TLDR: Just because it listed you have 90 power, does not mean that your beam fired with the 90 power damage bonus.
I can buy that the UI doesn't update properly, however the DPS per beam also reflects (what I perceive as) extra drain.

Projected Average DPS per Beam with 6 beams and Weapon Power overcapped to 153: 873.49
Actual Average DPS per Beam with 6 beams and Weapon Power overcapped to 153: 393.2

Projected Average DPS per Beam with 6 beams and Weapon Power overcapped to 168: 908.96
Actual Average DPS per Beam with 6 beams and Weapon Power overcapped to 168: 458.74

While I do not expect the Average DPS per Beam to actually equal the Projected, but it should be closer than what the Actual is showing.

So I don't think this is just an observational error on my part and it does lead me to believe that there is something wrong with the drain mechanic for beams.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,869
# 274
03-20-2013, 03:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyranger1414 View Post
I think too many people simply don't want to accept that beams are suppossed to do less dps by design. Its a design decision. It simply astonishes me how the community would cling to power drain as "the one thing holding beams back". No, they are held back by design. It would be far more productive to instead ask for a straight out beam DPS buff. Its not like Cryptic isn't inclined to help, why do you think they released a Beam Array that cost no power to use and a 360 weapon that procs extra weapon power?
It is more than DPS by design. These weapons are utterly obsolete; what is the point in a wide angle attack, when escorts can simply make up that angle with massive turn rate, and then proceed to put out a much more damaging attack? And the old "Cruisers aren't meant to be damage dealers" nugget just doesn't work. We have been over the role of DPS in this game countless times, and know that nothing else matters.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 220
# 275
03-20-2013, 04:24 AM
This thread is still going ? surprised it hasn't been locked by a mod by now.

Simply put its not beams or cannons but the abuse of Aux 2 Batt which (when running multiple copies) can allow you to run multiple Boff powers in a short space of time.

Also people need to grow a pair and play the game better/improve their build/fly an escort yadda yadda ya or GTFO.

You cannot have a game where multiple classes are equal. TACS are meant to damage, what do people not understand about that ?

You cannot be an engineer and be in a cruiser an out dps an escort because engineers are not meant to do that nor are sci ships. Sorry people but get over it already, All the negativity and butthurt on the forums really is depressing.

Even if escorts or dhc got nerfed YOU WOULD STILL FIND ESCORTS BEATING THE C**P out of other ships.

Im a Tac, I do damage, its my job in an escort to kill you and I will. Even if you want to tie both hands behind my back I will faceroll the keyboard and still kill you.

Instead of the witch hunt against escorts and DHC go play with multiple copies of aux 2 batt and aux 2 batt doffs and you will see what I mean.

Even if I was a Tac in an escort with all beams I could still out dps any other ship without abusing aux 2 batt.

Reading threads like this with each and every person with their own agenda having no interest in the advancement of the game, just their own personal agenda being fuelled by the butthurt really is very very sad.

Its a shame the energy put into this thread is wasted when it could be better focused elsewhere. Look ouside you own immediate agenda of the " I IZ LEET UBER PWNZER" and appreciate that each ship has a role to play.

If anything should be done then yes by all means give beams less drain and allow them to fire off quicker (it does seem to me the animation in game is not consistent with beam firing ie it is too long especially if you look at battle scense from DS9 beam weapon firing) OR give beams powers like beam rapid fire ?

Either way it doesn't matter, escorts will use beams and still roll people unless people actually get together, and use tactics.

If your in pvp 1 person tractors an escort, sci fires a tricobolt out its rear, leaving the rest to pick off the pieces ?

HOW DAM HARD IS IT FOR YOU ALL TO GRASP THE BASIC FUNDAMENTALS OF THIS GAME ? THAT INCLUDES DEVELOPERS LIKE GECKO WHO ARE ALSO IINEPTLY USELESS

sigh ...... enough this really is too depressing to read the idiocy being shown here.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 154
# 276
03-20-2013, 08:27 AM
im not reading the entire thread to see if anyone has done with, but has anyone done any fact finding?

I decided to do a small math test, white beam arrays (cruiser broadside 7 beams not including torpedoes) vs 3 DHC and 3 Turrets (for escort).

Also, all weapons are non buffed or effected by skills and at 100 weapon power.

Results where 7 beams are 1540 dps with no energy drain and 1078 with energy drain

Escort with 3 DHC and 3 Turrets when having DHC start firing first was 1164 dps with no energy drain and 897.6 with drain.

So, I dont see how cannons are that ott or am i missing something?
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 336
# 277
03-20-2013, 08:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chi1701d View Post
im not reading the entire thread to see if anyone has done with, but has anyone done any fact finding?

I decided to do a small math test, white beam arrays (cruiser broadside 7 beams not including torpedoes) vs 3 DHC and 3 Turrets (for escort).

Also, all weapons are non buffed or effected by skills and at 100 weapon power.

Results where 7 beams are 1540 dps with no energy drain and 1078 with energy drain

Escort with 3 DHC and 3 Turrets when having DHC start firing first was 1164 dps with no energy drain and 897.6 with drain.

So, I dont see how cannons are that ott or am i missing something?
Abilities, as well as calculation of average DPS over time, not just in one burst.

You may also want to keep an eye on how the power drops for beam arrays, compared to DHC/turret.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,154
# 278
03-20-2013, 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chi1701d View Post
im not reading the entire thread to see if anyone has done with, but has anyone done any fact finding?

I decided to do a small math test, white beam arrays (cruiser broadside 7 beams not including torpedoes) vs 3 DHC and 3 Turrets (for escort).

Also, all weapons are non buffed or effected by skills and at 100 weapon power.

Results where 7 beams are 1540 dps with no energy drain and 1078 with energy drain

Escort with 3 DHC and 3 Turrets when having DHC start firing first was 1164 dps with no energy drain and 897.6 with drain.

So, I dont see how cannons are that ott or am i missing something?
I have done some stat finding (I created a spreadsheet to calculate damage and DPS of various weapons and it's fairly accurate, though incomplete) and my results are as follows

Scenario: All weapons Mk X Common. 8 Beam arrays vs 4 DHCs, Power level: 145, Starship weapons skill: 9 + Omega rep, starship energy weapons: 9

Beam arrays (32 shots)
Damage: 17,742.66
DPS: 3,458.53

DHCs (32 shots)
Damage: 29,532.1
DPS: 9,844.04

Again, not 100% accurate but it is within 100 points on any given figure.

Any shots fired at over 125 power are counted as 125 due to how the power works in that regard all shots fired with no buffs

Last edited by adamkafei; 03-20-2013 at 12:24 PM.
Ensign
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 19
# 279
03-20-2013, 12:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pointedears View Post
This thread is still going ? surprised it hasn't been locked by a mod by now.

Simply put its not beams or cannons but the abuse of Aux 2 Batt which (when running multiple copies) can allow you to run multiple Boff powers in a short space of time.

Also people need to grow a pair and play the game better/improve their build/fly an escort yadda yadda ya or GTFO.

You cannot have a game where multiple classes are equal. TACS are meant to damage, what do people not understand about that ?

You cannot be an engineer and be in a cruiser an out dps an escort because engineers are not meant to do that nor are sci ships. Sorry people but get over it already, All the negativity and butthurt on the forums really is depressing.

Even if escorts or dhc got nerfed YOU WOULD STILL FIND ESCORTS BEATING THE C**P out of other ships.

Im a Tac, I do damage, its my job in an escort to kill you and I will. Even if you want to tie both hands behind my back I will faceroll the keyboard and still kill you.

Instead of the witch hunt against escorts and DHC go play with multiple copies of aux 2 batt and aux 2 batt doffs and you will see what I mean.

Even if I was a Tac in an escort with all beams I could still out dps any other ship without abusing aux 2 batt.

Reading threads like this with each and every person with their own agenda having no interest in the advancement of the game, just their own personal agenda being fuelled by the butthurt really is very very sad.

Its a shame the energy put into this thread is wasted when it could be better focused elsewhere. Look ouside you own immediate agenda of the " I IZ LEET UBER PWNZER" and appreciate that each ship has a role to play.

If anything should be done then yes by all means give beams less drain and allow them to fire off quicker (it does seem to me the animation in game is not consistent with beam firing ie it is too long especially if you look at battle scense from DS9 beam weapon firing) OR give beams powers like beam rapid fire ?

Either way it doesn't matter, escorts will use beams and still roll people unless people actually get together, and use tactics.

If your in pvp 1 person tractors an escort, sci fires a tricobolt out its rear, leaving the rest to pick off the pieces ?

HOW DAM HARD IS IT FOR YOU ALL TO GRASP THE BASIC FUNDAMENTALS OF THIS GAME ? THAT INCLUDES DEVELOPERS LIKE GECKO WHO ARE ALSO IINEPTLY USELESS

sigh ...... enough this really is too depressing to read the idiocy being shown here.
It is depressing to read so much ignorance from players like you. A gm should delete such silly posts. This does not help anyone.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 267
# 280 Yes yes Yes!
03-20-2013, 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pointedears View Post
This thread is still going ? surprised it hasn't been locked by a mod by now.

Simply put its not beams or cannons but the abuse of Aux 2 Batt which (when running multiple copies) can allow you to run multiple Boff powers in a short space of time.

Also people need to grow a pair and play the game better/improve their build/fly an escort yadda yadda ya or GTFO.

You cannot have a game where multiple classes are equal. TACS are meant to damage, what do people not understand about that ?

You cannot be an engineer and be in a cruiser an out dps an escort because engineers are not meant to do that nor are sci ships. Sorry people but get over it already, All the negativity and butthurt on the forums really is depressing.

Even if escorts or dhc got nerfed YOU WOULD STILL FIND ESCORTS BEATING THE C**P out of other ships.

Im a Tac, I do damage, its my job in an escort to kill you and I will. Even if you want to tie both hands behind my back I will faceroll the keyboard and still kill you.

Instead of the witch hunt against escorts and DHC go play with multiple copies of aux 2 batt and aux 2 batt doffs and you will see what I mean.

Even if I was a Tac in an escort with all beams I could still out dps any other ship without abusing aux 2 batt.

Reading threads like this with each and every person with their own agenda having no interest in the advancement of the game, just their own personal agenda being fuelled by the butthurt really is very very sad.

Its a shame the energy put into this thread is wasted when it could be better focused elsewhere. Look ouside you own immediate agenda of the " I IZ LEET UBER PWNZER" and appreciate that each ship has a role to play.

If anything should be done then yes by all means give beams less drain and allow them to fire off quicker (it does seem to me the animation in game is not consistent with beam firing ie it is too long especially if you look at battle scense from DS9 beam weapon firing) OR give beams powers like beam rapid fire ?

Either way it doesn't matter, escorts will use beams and still roll people unless people actually get together, and use tactics.

If your in pvp 1 person tractors an escort, sci fires a tricobolt out its rear, leaving the rest to pick off the pieces ?

HOW DAM HARD IS IT FOR YOU ALL TO GRASP THE BASIC FUNDAMENTALS OF THIS GAME ? THAT INCLUDES DEVELOPERS LIKE GECKO WHO ARE ALSO IINEPTLY USELESS

sigh ...... enough this really is too depressing to read the idiocy being shown here.
This is 1 of the best posts ever. A little crude yes, but...Thumbs up for speaking his mind and having some ba**s to say what many players are afraid to say!
http://media.photobucket.com/image/dofftrader/yoreantiques/DOFFtrader.gif
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