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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 865
# 21
03-20-2013, 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shar487a View Post
Antiprotons have an inherent +20 crit severity mod, while Tetryons get a 2.5% shield stripping proc. As a result, AP weapons will always enjoy a +20 crit-severity advantage over Tetryon weapons with identical mods / suffixes. When the the target has no shields, tetryon really becomes lack-luster compared to other energy weapon types.
That's why you would have to get Tetryon's that have an extra crit modifier to get the +20 crit-sev. Then they would be equivalent, as far as that goes.
Are you sure it isn't time for a "colorful metaphor"? --Spock in 'The Voyage Home'
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 537
# 22
03-20-2013, 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dashuk2381 View Post
Disruptor or Anti-Proton. Disruptors benefit everyone on the teams DPS, antiproton can get some insane criticals going especially with the boost to crit chance from Tachyokinetic Converter/Zero-Point/Borg Console, or if you have all 3 of them equipped at once, even better.

I use Polaron on my Science captain with a power drain build, everything else is either disruptor or anti-proton. At end game there really is nothing better.
Not to mention one of the rep space skills adds 3% crit as well as the Romulan Crit boffs from the embassy

I am up around 12% base crit on my patrol escort
1hr of work @NYS Min Wage 7.25 = 725 Zen
725 x 102 (or current exchange rate) DL = 73950 DL <- can you earn that per hour in game?

Join Date: Sep 2009 - I want my changeling lava lamp!
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,202
# 23
03-20-2013, 03:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirokk View Post
That's why you would have to get Tetryon's that have an extra crit modifier to get the +20 crit-sev. Then they would be equivalent, as far as that goes.
That would only be true if you compare a tetryon weapon with [CrtD] vs. an antiproton weapon without [CrtD], ie, non-equivalent versions. If you compare apples-to-apples, like a tetryon [CrtD]x3 vs. antiproton [CrtD]x3, then tetryon still loses by -20 crit severity.

Let's not forget the tetryon proc's inferior shield drain performance when benched against the tetryon glider mechanic. Cryptic can correct this by increasing the shield quantity removed by the tetryon proc, but I have not seen any hints that this will be happening anytime soon.

Last edited by shar487a; 03-20-2013 at 03:34 PM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 260
# 24
03-21-2013, 08:05 AM
Personally, I love tetryon weapons with the tet glider 2 piece combo. It all depends what you want out of your ship. Flow capacitors boost both, leading to noticeable gains.

Tet weapons aren't as effective as AP or disruptors against unshielded argets, or against player ships which focus on hull tanking.

But by the same token, using the Kinetic Cutting beam and even one good torpedo (with HY3 or TS3 preferably) will still cause immense damage to hulls. In STFs, I find tets help to peel the shields of multiple targets with CSV or BFAW, exposing them to a torp spread. This in turn helps to attain the optional objestives, such as stopping waves from reaching the kang or the gate, or destroying nanite spheres.

The Tet proc does its shield drain to all 4 facings, very helpful when fighting slippery foes (such as fast, maneuvarable ships in pvp). Ships with a high defence rating, such as escorts in PVP arent going be critted as often, but the tet proc and drain is a fixed chance.

Looking at upcoming changes to pvp as well, extra shied damage may well become even more important. Elite fleet phasers and elite shields will make shields a lot tankier as they become more common, increasing the relative value of tet weapons.

AP is doubtkess better against hull tanks, but again there are other sources of high kinetic damage. The recent boosts to crit rate (such as rommie passive and zero point console) are probably why ap seems so much more popular these days, that and there is now finally a simple way to get them in Accx2.

If you want to boost the hull damage from your tet weapons, why not use some plasma infused romulan consoles (id choose flow caps variant)? They basically add a plasma hull damage proc to your weapons. Granted they'd do the same for AP, but AP wouldnt get anything out of flow capacitors.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,874
# 25
03-21-2013, 08:25 AM
One of the things about tetryon is you can get the deshielding affect without using any damage consoles, since the proc payoff is keyed to acc/crth instead of damage. So you can load up a torp boat with kinetic consoles and use the tets for deshielding only. My only real gripe about tet is that they do not work as well as they should. This is because they have a fixed amount and are not keyed to target shield percentage. So they are either OP against small things or (more often) way underpowered against stuff with 6k shields.

Conversely antiproton is keyed to percentage of damage, so maxing out consoles maxes out the proc too.

I'm planning to switch my fed escort over to AP, once I clear some other projects. My cruiser will keep the tet beams for the foreseeable future.

Last edited by ursusmorologus; 03-21-2013 at 08:30 AM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,202
# 26
03-21-2013, 09:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave18193 View Post
Personally, I love tetryon weapons with the tet glider 2 piece combo. It all depends what you want out of your ship. Flow capacitors boost both, leading to noticeable gains.

...<SNIP>...

The Tet proc does its shield drain to all 4 facings, very helpful when fighting slippery foes (such as fast, maneuvarable ships in pvp). Ships with a high defence rating, such as escorts in PVP arent going be critted as often, but the tet proc and drain is a fixed chance.

...<SNIP>...

Looking at upcoming changes to pvp as well, extra shied damage may well become even more important. Elite fleet phasers and elite shields will make shields a lot tankier as they become more common, increasing the relative value of tet weapons.

...<SNIP>...

AP is doubtkess better against hull tanks, but again there are other sources of high kinetic damage. The recent boosts to crit rate (such as rommie passive and zero point console) are probably why ap seems so much more popular these days, that and there is now finally a simple way to get them in Accx2.
Tetryon weapon shield drain quantities are also reduced by power insulators -- the more the target stacks, the less tetryons drain shields (I typically run L6 / +85 base Power Insulators IIRC). Fortunately NPC's don't tend to have any such stats, but in PVP, power insulator stats are standard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave18193 View Post
Tet weapons aren't as effective as AP or disruptors against unshielded argets, or against player ships which focus on hull tanking.

But by the same token, using the Kinetic Cutting beam and even one good torpedo (with HY3 or TS3 preferably) will still cause immense damage to hulls. In STFs, I find tets help to peel the shields of multiple targets with CSV or BFAW, exposing them to a torp spread. This in turn helps to attain the optional objestives, such as stopping waves from reaching the kang or the gate, or destroying nanite spheres.

...<SNIP>...

AP is doubtkess better against hull tanks, but again there are other sources of high kinetic damage. The recent boosts to crit rate (such as rommie passive and zero point console) are probably why ap seems so much more popular these days, that and there is now finally a simple way to get them in Accx2.

If you want to boost the hull damage from your tet weapons, why not use some plasma infused romulan consoles (id choose flow caps variant)? They basically add a plasma hull damage proc to your weapons. Granted they'd do the same for AP, but AP wouldnt get anything out of flow capacitors.
The problem with tetryons do not go away by compensating for their lack of extra hull damage with torpedoes -- you still have an energy weapon type that is over-specialized against shields. Torpedoes are the opposite end of the spectrum -- they score extra damage vs. exposed hulls but are mitigated via Brace for Impact.

There is a bright side to Tetryon -- is shield drain is counted as damage for game DPS metrics purposes, so even if a tetryon-armed ship does not inflict lethal damage to destroy a ship, it still scores higher net damage for competitive fleet action rankings. I watched a Galor warship consistently place 1st in Gorn Mine Field using this tactic. I usually place first in my JHAS, but the Galor captain's build was well tuned towards padding its numbers via tetryon cannons and turrets.

When I get home, I'll try slotting 2 Omega pieces and see if it makes any difference.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 37
# 27
03-21-2013, 09:41 AM
I had a talk with my fleet, and they said AP as well, so I think I'll go AP. I'll miss tetryon, but the Mobius is built for AP.

Thanks for all your help guys
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 461
# 28
03-21-2013, 10:12 AM
I just got a Mobius yesterday, and was planning on AP once I got the dil.

But since I lack the ability to read properly, I now have 3 fleet dual cannons instead of dual heavy cannons.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,202
# 29
03-21-2013, 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by quintaris View Post
I just got a Mobius yesterday, and was planning on AP once I got the dil.

But since I lack the ability to read properly, I now have 3 fleet dual cannons instead of dual heavy cannons.
You may still be able to salvage the situation by using the Omega Space Set. Since Dual cannons fire at 2x the rate of DHC's, you will get double the Tetryon Glider shield drain per cannon volley.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 461
# 30
03-21-2013, 12:53 PM
Hmm...that might be an option. I think I've got two pieces of the MK X Omega set from pre-S7. Not ideal, but that'll teach me to see "dual" and not continue reading.
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