Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 361
what they did when tacticals started to boost science skills ? nerfed science skills, they didnt nerf the boosting capability of tacticals from theyr op skills, causing a dmg boost to everything

repulsors are weak, they make useless dmg without tactical skills, same for photonic shockwave and gravity well

gravity well cant hold a thing anymore, and tacticals still can boost it better than sci's

feedbackpulse is drastically boosted from tactical buffs too, i mean, you dont need to spend points on science skills, just go tactical, they can boost the damage the enemy is making, and reflect it harder ...

charged particle burst is super weak, i cant reach 5k shield strip even with 4 flow cap consoles and max aux, anyone have a shield of 15-20k average cap, that plus power insulators that recudes cpb damage by half, makes the skill useless, cpb and tachyon beam are useless now.

photonic shockwave dmg can be boosted better by tactical officers too, and the disable time is stupid because every tactical have the op skill called attack pattern omega that gives immunity to every single disable, hold, repel, gravity well etc etc, and still everybody has inertial dampers that recuces the disable time by half

the only skills that i find usefull for pvp are energy syphon and feedbackpulse, and perhaps repulsors/gw with doff to have a constant mine clearing, other skills are useless, cpb is only to decloak, sensor scan, gravity well, antiproton sweap do that too, tykens rift's drain is very weak too, and that is because tactical's can boost every single thing there is in the game, making science's job better than scientists, my brother quited engineer because nadion inversion is useless 95% of the time, only to counter energy drain builds, or to make some overloads, but devs forgot about torpedo boats of course, because tacticals boost any kind of dmg, and comparing nadion inversion/eps power transfer/eng fleet to the related tactical skill you will see that tacticals are op, because they can boost everything, they should only boost energy damage, leaving the kinetic for scientists, or making the kinetic damage from repulsors/psw/gw, modified by aux, plus a little boost in dmg, as well as the shield stripping skills of course, they can't do a ****


wanna try science in science vessel ? dont, that would require you to spend points on prtg,flow caps, etc etc, go tactical, they can boost feedbackpulse better than you wihout particle generators, they can make a 10k photonic shockwave, or almost kill you with only one repulsors bleed, and what the devs did for that to stop happening ? nerf science skills !!! and give attack pattern omega immunity to disables, holds, repels, movement debuffs, etc etc, cryptic dont want balance, they want the f*king jhas to be stronger and stronger
and they keep nerfing every single way that other classes have to kill tacs, aceton beam is BS, as well as dem, because someone discovered that dem worked nice with turrets, or that tackyon beam could strip half of a escort's shield if well boosted

and please, don't tell me "if you can't win a pvp in a sci/sci you are doing it wrong" because i know what i do, and if you dont believe it, post your in game name and we will have a fight.

tacticals are op because they can boost science skills better than scientists, and have better captain skills than engineers (definitely) and scientists, pressure damage is still super up, leaving the rest for tacticals that can boost all type of damage, and i cant make a significant ammount of damage without feedbackpulse on 1vs1's, and please, dont talk about that 10k vesta dps build, that was the most nooby post i ever saw.

tacticals shouldn't boost science skills they way they do, at least, stop boosting fbp and kinetic dmg from science skills, and give them a boost
it's not the ship or the build, it's the atitude
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,276
# 2
03-21-2013, 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borgresearcher View Post
what they did when tacticals started to boost science skills ? nerfed science skills, they didnt nerf the boosting capability of tacticals from theyr op skills, causing a dmg boost to everything

repulsors are weak, they make useless dmg without tactical skills, same for photonic shockwave and gravity well

gravity well cant hold a thing anymore, and tacticals still can boost it better than sci's

feedbackpulse is drastically boosted from tactical buffs too, i mean, you dont need to spend points on science skills, just go tactical, they can boost the damage the enemy is making, and reflect it harder ...

charged particle burst is super weak, i cant reach 5k shield strip even with 4 flow cap consoles and max aux, anyone have a shield of 15-20k average cap, that plus power insulators that recudes cpb damage by half, makes the skill useless, cpb and tachyon beam are useless now.

photonic shockwave dmg can be boosted better by tactical officers too, and the disable time is stupid because every tactical have the op skill called attack pattern omega that gives immunity to every single disable, hold, repel, gravity well etc etc, and still everybody has inertial dampers that recuces the disable time by half

the only skills that i find usefull for pvp are energy syphon and feedbackpulse, and perhaps repulsors/gw with doff to have a constant mine clearing, other skills are useless, cpb is only to decloak, sensor scan, gravity well, antiproton sweap do that too, tykens rift's drain is very weak too, and that is because tactical's can boost every single thing there is in the game, making science's job better than scientists, my brother quited engineer because nadion inversion is useless 95% of the time, only to counter energy drain builds, or to make some overloads, but devs forgot about torpedo boats of course, because tacticals boost any kind of dmg, and comparing nadion inversion/eps power transfer/eng fleet to the related tactical skill you will see that tacticals are op, because they can boost everything, they should only boost energy damage, leaving the kinetic for scientists, or making the kinetic damage from repulsors/psw/gw, modified by aux, plus a little boost in dmg, as well as the shield stripping skills of course, they can't do a ****


wanna try science in science vessel ? dont, that would require you to spend points on prtg,flow caps, etc etc, go tactical, they can boost feedbackpulse better than you wihout particle generators, they can make a 10k photonic shockwave, or almost kill you with only one repulsors bleed, and what the devs did for that to stop happening ? nerf science skills !!! and give attack pattern omega immunity to disables, holds, repels, movement debuffs, etc etc, cryptic dont want balance, they want the f*king jhas to be stronger and stronger
and they keep nerfing every single way that other classes have to kill tacs, aceton beam is BS, as well as dem, because someone discovered that dem worked nice with turrets, or that tackyon beam could strip half of a escort's shield if well boosted

and please, don't tell me "if you can't win a pvp in a sci/sci you are doing it wrong" because i know what i do, and if you dont believe it, post your in game name and we will have a fight.

tacticals are op because they can boost science skills better than scientists, and have better captain skills than engineers (definitely) and scientists, pressure damage is still super up, leaving the rest for tacticals that can boost all type of damage, and i cant make a significant ammount of damage without feedbackpulse on 1vs1's, and please, dont talk about that 10k vesta dps build, that was the most nooby post i ever saw.

tacticals shouldn't boost science skills they way they do, at least, stop boosting fbp and kinetic dmg from science skills, and give them a boost
Tacticals have ALWAYS boosted sci... its not some new change. lol

Tacticals should boost sci... there skills are DMG BOOSTS... its not shocking that they boost dmg. If you are saying tacticals should not boost sci... that's fine... then Sci fleet should not stack with EPTS anymore... SNB and Sensor scan should be disabled when your not flying a sci ship as well. lol

Gravity well is FINE.... I use it on my sci sci and love it... people that claim its weak are to stupid to spec it proper. 9 Points in gravity well and 1-2 consoles and it holds like a mother.

CPB... is NOT effected by tac skills as it is not direct dmg... anything you think is wrong with CPB has nothing to do with tactical. Again CPB is fine as well... 5k btw is more then half of an escorts shield, and a good half of most cruisers... combo it with tachyon for the other half... hardly as weak as people let on... NO you can't ista pop people like you used to be able to prior to resists. Its fine as it is.

Shockwave is a great skill... direct dmg was never its main use. Learn to use it. Don't try to shock people running omega. Its not that hard to look for a buff... also why are you trying to shock escorts anyway ? Shock the cruisers that are extending them.... THAT is what PSW is for.

I'm sorry learn to play your sci sci properly, and you would have less to complain about. Sorry for the snarky tone, really though these Tacs shouldn't boost sci arguments come up to often... of course tac skills work on direct dmg skills... that's sort of there point. The other classes skills don't shut off if they don't fly there Typical Captain ship.
Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 361
# 3
03-21-2013, 11:53 AM
i expected something like that, and i didnt say tacticals could boost cpb, they just boost every single thing, compared to scientists and engineers, that's op, they dont need to have particle gen/prtg consoles to reach what a scientist can do with max prtg and thats op, the devs nerfed almost all sci skills, leaving us without any dmg dealling skill, repulsors sucks now, even with repulsors 3 you cant make a 1k hit if your not in a tactical officer, how do you explain that a tactical can boost a science skill better than scientists can ? how do you explain that tacticals dont even need aux maxed to reach the max potencial of a skill that other players need to spend their points for ? 5k is not half the shield of an escort, otherwise you are a noob and you dont have shield systems maxed, and you dont use any field generators or you dont have power insulators, those 5k are reduced to 2.5k with power insulators, plus, im using 4 flow cap consoles to reach those 5k shield stripping, i wonder what wouldve happen if you had 4 power insulator consoles, the cpb would go to 1k or something, dont tell me science skills are good the way they are, and that tacticals are good the way they boost science skills
it's not the ship or the build, it's the atitude
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,123
# 4
03-21-2013, 12:20 PM
My fleet mate, who flies a Sci captain in a Sci ship has spec'ed his ship to boost considerable amounts of damage with FBP3.

I managed to kill my self against him several times in one or two volleys with FBP3 sending all that damage back to me.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,802
# 5
03-21-2013, 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
My fleet mate, who flies a Sci captain in a Sci ship has spec'ed his ship to boost considerable amounts of damage with FBP3.

I managed to kill my self against him several times in one or two volleys with FBP3 sending all that damage back to me.

just imagine if that FBP was alphad...then it would do even more damage...but really is it that bad..what damage sci power isnt counterable? i would rather be hit by GW by a tac in a sci ship than a sci in a sci ship, because the tac cant sub nuke my APO to keep me in the GW.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,175
# 6
03-21-2013, 12:49 PM
unless your runing a dot or trans build, expect to deal next to no damage as a sci/sci. but thats fine, you should be seting up kills, thats your job, the damage you cause will neveer be enough to make a difference, so dont bother trying to deal any. control instead

VM- ruination of escorts or anything that doesnt have ET

PSW- puts a stop to TBs, TBR, tach beam, ES, EWP, and any other skill that has a duration like that

GW- an aoe hold that can hold pretty well with proper specing, the doff seems to work great too.

TBR- the push is what maters with a sci. get someone away from a healer and have the escorts pounce on them

you also got SNB and scan, the 2 greatest kill setup skills in the game. your escort friends take it from here.



if tac skills stopped buffing skills that deal energy or kinetic damage, there would never be a reason for a tac to fly a sci, that synergy would not exist. wile it can be entertaining to have damage buffed GW, PSW, FBP, and TBR, your not going to destroy anyone like you will in an escort, and your a sci ship on the field without an SNB and scan and sci fleet and the aoe resist thing.

sci captains seem to take it real personal when tac captains can deal more damage with THEIR skills. forgetting that its in no way a sci captains job to contribute to team success by dealing damage. any that a sci captain deals is just gravy.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,123
# 7
03-21-2013, 12:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmy1081 View Post
just imagine if that FBP was alphad...then it would do even more damage...but really is it that bad..what damage sci power isnt counterable? i would rather be hit by GW by a tac in a sci ship than a sci in a sci ship, because the tac cant sub nuke my APO to keep me in the GW.
My point was more that a Sci in a Sci ship has the potential to kill something quickly.

I once fought against a Temporal Science ship where the Captain kept chaining FBP. It didn't kill me quickly, but it was pretty damn annoying just the same.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 151
# 8 Wow. Really?
03-21-2013, 01:35 PM
I'm shocked to hear some things in the replies to the original post.

First of all Npc's fly out of gravity well. I have 6 points. And I would find it ridiculous for someone to tell me I HAVE TO put 9 points into it to get it to hold. The fact is the repel sucks. Using it for npc spam? pfff. Is that what Gravity Well is for? Hmmm. And here I thought it was for controlling a group of ships. I think Cryptic needs to specify they want us to trap fighters with this skill in the description. I'm sure many other players are confused also.

Tykens Rift is a joke. I suppose someone will tell me that energy siphon is meant to boost your own power levels and not to drain the targets power levels either so its still good. I guess Cryptic should probably just remove the drain from enemies altogether for that skill since we're only using it for half ass reasons in the first place. But who needs to bother trying to drain when I can run two copies of Viral Matrix and shut down systems with little to no effort. Now there is a skill that IS working well right now.

Shield Drains? Mai Kai has already commented on his extensive experience with the skill. Its a hail mary. But I'm glad Tacyhon Beam and Charged Particle Burst aren't calculated as damage dealing skills. Good god tacs would buff those too.

Scramble is in a sweet spot right now. Jam Sensors does it's job. Photonic Shockwave was never for damage? In any form its either been stronger for stuns, or stronger for damage. Except now the damage is negligible even with shields down and the max disable you'll get is 1-2 seconds. Pretty crappy for a commander level skill. Wish my shockwave was more like an attack pattern. Boy those attack patterns sure get a lot of mileage. Of course I'll give credit to the photonic shockwave doffs. The spread can be pretty effective for that one to two seconds in team settings. It was a really cool addition to the game. So in my opinion a little boost in damage numbers may be warranted here.

There are too many sci skills that are NOT used particularly in premade matches simply because they are USELESS in their current form and/or relative to current resists to said skills. And if someone is going to tell me that out of all the science skills available that science captains are only meant to use the ones that deal NO DAMAGE? I guess Tac Captains only use the attack patterns that BUFF DAMAGE AND MOVEMENT and not DEBUFF their targets right? And Tac Captains shouldn't use anything that isnt a cannon or turret and deals energy damage. NO. Because that would just be plain nonsense.

So lets not come here and berate the original poster who is obviously frustrated with the current state of science. As are many other science captains who play this game right now. Lets not pretend there is nothing wrong with the class. There is definitely room for improvement. Now there are definitely things that work best for Science Captains right now and DontdrunkImShoot made an excellent point about what weapons work the best for sci right at this point in time. And for good reason. But in my own way I agree with the OP. Tac Captains don't need to buff science or engineering skills. They should only buff energy damage and projectile damage. I personally have a problem with Tac Captains having a monopoly over every form of damage dealt in the game. In my opinion projectile and energy damage is enough of a monopoly. Sci and Engineering Captains will never compete on raw damage output alone and that's fair. But that is where Science Captains and Engineering Captains should be able to make up the differential deficit in "pressure damage" versus "spike damage". Through the exotic damage found in select Science and Engineering abilities which have always been counterable or avoidable to some degree as opposed to an alpha strike exceptionally well timed and expertly executed.

-Captain Tripwire-

Let no other player discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Though you may walk alone through looming shadows of doubt cast upon you by your enemies. Forge your heart with iron casting its shape out of only your pure will to push forward. You will not be denied eventually.

Last edited by tripwire690; 03-21-2013 at 01:43 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,276
# 9
03-21-2013, 01:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmy1081 View Post
just imagine if that FBP was alphad...then it would do even more damage...but really is it that bad..what damage sci power isnt counterable? i would rather be hit by GW by a tac in a sci ship than a sci in a sci ship, because the tac cant sub nuke my APO to keep me in the GW.
If the sci pops a fully buffed sensor scan on you... I would bet the sci FBP would in fact kill you much quicker then the alphed up version.
Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,175
# 10
03-21-2013, 01:58 PM
tac captains dealing the most damage with everything and anything is how it should be. its the class that only deals damage, another captain type out damaging it in any way makes no sense.

engineers suck because they are redundant due to defensive power creep, or theres something else available to everyone that mimics their skills. but in a lot of matches, with out a sci around no one would ever die

energy siphon can be fairly potent actually, but TR has to be broken. it does basically nothing. having 99 PI cuts shield and energy drains in half, its rare you will find a challenging opponent without 99 PI, those sci skills definitely need work. but the rest of sci, especially properly doffed, is still devastating for controlling
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