Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 585
# 11
03-21-2013, 06:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borgresearcher View Post
I also got a chuckle out of "tacticals are op compared to other classes." Just sayin"

aren't they ?

and virusdancer, how could a warp core integration unbalance things ?
Not even kind of. A Science Cappy is, all around, a far more powerful Captain mechanically speaking in PvP. Sensor Scan is an AoE hull DR debuff that is usually much stickier than FOMM (and with a doff can cut an affected target's damage output by a little over 33%), Scattering Field is a respectable radius massive hull DR buff vs Energy Weapon damage, Science Fleet is a team-wide 33% DR buff that also buffs the strength of shield heals... and then there's Sub-Nucleonic Beam which peels most buffs off a target and extends any powers the target already has on cooldown by up to 30 seconds.

The only reason Tactical Captains seem overpowered is that they do exactly what the class was intended to do (as do Science Captains) within their hyper-specialized niche.

Engineers, by comparison, under perform in PvP most because attrition has been mitigated to the point where normal healing cycles (your average EPtS roll, for example) and durability has climbed to the point where it takes a single tremendous spike of damage dealt in an amount of time that prevents reactive healing, the type which would kill an Engi just as dead as anyone else. This leads to team force multiplies (Sensor Scan, Tactical Fleet, Science Fleet, Sub-Nucleonic beam) becoming too valuable to pass up for a little bit of personal extra healing.

IME.
If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,229
# 12
03-21-2013, 07:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borgresearcher View Post
it could work, at least in my idea of it, the same as shields or engines, making part of sets like maco, khg, borg, aegis, normal or fleet, etc etc,and working together with crew numbers giving devs a chance to balance things without giving us a complete new list of nerfs for 2013
Main issue I believe is that before this could work as you have mentioned the vortex of crew death needs to be addressed.

Smaller ships with smaller crews benefit most because of crew regen.

But have you ever looked at ships like battlecruisers and carriers with over 2500 crew?

Most of "redshirts" perish in the first few volleys of a torp-spread.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,229
# 13
03-21-2013, 07:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegrimcorsair View Post
Not even kind of. A Science Cappy is, all around, a far more powerful Captain mechanically speaking in PvP. Sensor Scan is an AoE hull DR debuff that is usually much stickier than FOMM (and with a doff can cut an affected target's damage output by a little over 33%), Scattering Field is a respectable radius massive hull DR buff vs Energy Weapon damage, Science Fleet is a team-wide 33% DR buff that also buffs the strength of shield heals... and then there's Sub-Nucleonic Beam which peels most buffs off a target and extends any powers the target already has on cooldown by up to 30 seconds.

The only reason Tactical Captains seem overpowered is that they do exactly what the class was intended to do (as do Science Captains) within their hyper-specialized niche.

Engineers, by comparison, under perform in PvP most because attrition has been mitigated to the point where normal healing cycles (your average EPtS roll, for example) and durability has climbed to the point where it takes a single tremendous spike of damage dealt in an amount of time that prevents reactive healing, the type which would kill an Engi just as dead as anyone else. This leads to team force multiplies (Sensor Scan, Tactical Fleet, Science Fleet, Sub-Nucleonic beam) becoming too valuable to pass up for a little bit of personal extra healing.

IME.
This is the grim truth

See what I did there?
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 585
# 14
03-21-2013, 07:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers View Post
This is the grim truth

See what I did there?
Oh... oh God. You've punned as hard as me. Reality must be broken!

....

Suddenly, the Romulan Faction and good tidings for the KDF make about one thousand times more sense.
If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,296
# 15
03-21-2013, 07:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borgresearcher View Post
and virusdancer, how could a warp core integration unbalance things ?
As it stands now:

200 base power.
Can run 100/50/25/25 - or any combination. Max 100 - Min 25.

That does not account for Traits, Skills, Gear, Buffs.

There is a pseudo cap of 125 (weapon power can overcap to help offset drain).

Currently, it's not that difficult to run with 500 power (higher actually, because of overcapping weapons) for short periods of time.

So, how many different ways might they change the way power works, eh?

There's the different sized cores for different ships. What if they went with Sci having that base 200, Escorts having less, and Cruisers having more? This seems like the simplest and potentially the most trying to balance things. Escorts would get squishier for their damage while Cruisers would get tankier for their lack of damage.

What if it was a case of adjusting those caps/pseudo caps though? What if it were a case of saying the following:

150/75/100/75 for Escorts
75/150/75/100 for Cruisers
75/100/75/150 for Science

Or something along those lines?

What if it were a combination of the first two so far?

Okay then, say those are the base cores...what about upgraded cores, eh? Dil, Zen, Lobi better cores that overcome any of the "balancing" aspects and just provide certain ships with uber power?

Escorts with 200+ Weapon Power as more 5/2 Escorts are released?

With how little information has been released about what they're thinking about doing - one could err with caution and find themselves disappointed or one could /facepalm now and be relieved later when it's not as bad as it could have been.

It's Cryptic...
Vice Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
U.S.S. Temporary, Sentinel-class Star Cruiser
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,296
# 16
03-21-2013, 07:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers View Post
Main issue I believe is that before this could work as you have mentioned the vortex of crew death needs to be addressed.

Smaller ships with smaller crews benefit most because of crew regen.

But have you ever looked at ships like battlecruisers and carriers with over 2500 crew?

Most of "redshirts" perish in the first few volleys of a torp-spread.
The Lesser aspects of the tooltips, were they implemented the way they read - it wouldn't be as bad. As it stands though, big crew's a liability from several angles when it's been made out to be a positive thing...meh.

They need to look at crew loss (alive/able), crew regeneration, Theta, and possibly even having Science BOFF abilities (Medical) that help out with crew - not just trying to pass it off on Nurses/Medics. C'mon, where's the Ship's Doctor running Medical Team, eh?
Vice Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
U.S.S. Temporary, Sentinel-class Star Cruiser
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 17
03-21-2013, 07:36 AM
Originally, science team was called medical team and was used to regen crew....then tactical team was used to regen crew...then it was removed from it as well and replaced by auto distro.

I cannot help but wonder, if the original devs that created boff skills had much deeper understanding of the game. Judging how some skill worked before.
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 264
# 18
03-21-2013, 12:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
Originally, science team was called medical team and was used to regen crew....then tactical team was used to regen crew...then it was removed from it as well and replaced by auto distro.

I cannot help but wonder, if the original devs that created boff skills had much deeper understanding of the game. Judging how some skill worked before.
Bear in mind that this game was conceived, transferred hands, re-conceived, launched, transferred hands again, re-launched, and yet again transferred hands...
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 361
# 19
03-22-2013, 03:25 AM
now with a romulan faction is comming, they use singularity warp cores, i believe that warp cores implementation would just fit the game like a glove right now, giving cruisers what they need
it's not the ship or the build, it's the atitude
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,296
# 20
03-22-2013, 04:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borgresearcher View Post
now with a romulan faction is comming, they use singularity warp cores, i believe that warp cores implementation would just fit the game like a glove right now, giving cruisers what they need
But they haven't really explained the Singularity Cores any more than they've explained anything else.

Warbirds

Romulan captains take command of mighty Warbird Class starships. Push the engines to the limit and unleash the new and devastating powers of the Singularity Core.


Thing is, we've also got the two following things in the game:

Romulan Singularity Harness (3pc - Experimental Beam Array, Hyper-Plasma Torp, Zero-Point Energy Conduit)

Quantum Singularity Manipulation (T5 Rom Rep ability)

Given how few potential ships there appear to be for the Romulans... I mean, sure there's still 8.5 weeks or so of info they'll be giving us - but so far we've seen:

TOS BoP
BoP
Mogai
D'Deridex
Valdore-ish

So it's basically a Starter Ship, Raider, Raptor, Battle Cruiser, Zen Raptor... one can speculate about this and that, but c'mon eh?

There's around ~86 Fed ships not counting small craft.
There's around ~62 KDF ships not counting small craft.

We've seen...6. Heck, as far as NPC ships - there's really only the Scorpions, BoP, Mogai, D'Deridex, and Scimitar that could have upgraded artwork on.

Are they going to do a pseudo KDF thing?

Raider - Raptor - Battle Cruiser - Support/Sci (Zen Store)

Where the "ship" will be the same ship as you level, but you'll get "free" upgrades and "Zen" upgrades available for each rank? Are they basically going to do with the Roms what some folks wished they had done with the Feds, eh? Allow for flying that same ship from early on through your career - just a case of spending money to upgrade the ship rather than buying a new ship - where the upgrades cost somewhat less than a ship would have (but in the end would result in more money for Cryptic)...?

Then they'll add in various "special" Zen ships - maybe do a 3pack Scimitar for the Bort/Ody thing. They'll do the Time Ship/Temporal Destroyer. Possibly looking at a Flight-Deck Cruiser, Carrier, maybe even a Heavy Raptor/Destroyer Carrier, etc, etc, etc.

Will the Fleet Versions of ships actually be Fleet Upgrade Modules for the regular ships players have had?

Two months out - there's just too much room to speculate on how everything is going to work out, eh?
Vice Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
U.S.S. Temporary, Sentinel-class Star Cruiser
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