Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,537
# 21
03-22-2013, 06:03 AM
Again, this was just on a level 13 alt that I keep thinking about leveling (but it's my guy with the most Human BOFFs):

These are out of combat numbers...

First login to Sol System: 283.8%
Head to SB24: 283.8%
After leaving combat (returning to full crew): 235.5%
Returning to Sol after the SB24 (full crew): 221.3%

Those numbers...er...should be the same.

edit: Okay, so I looked Starship Hull Repair was still 119 as it was initially. Still, I took a SIF Mk III (+5) off and put it back on. Took me to 280.9%. Still not the 283.8%.

It was not until I set one of the BOFF stations to None and then put the BOFF back, that I got back to the 283.8%.

So just like Defense, the Perception Stuff, etc... the Hull Repair rate stuff gets screwed up depending on what you're doing and what you've done - it doesn't always recalculate everything correctly.

Have to wonder how many other things are broken out there like that. We enter and leave combat - we need to pull all our gear and BOFFs - then put them back again - we zone - we have to do that - we...yeah...

...I'm going to smoke.

edit2: Well, I checked weapons/consoles - and - it was consistent. But yeah, the hull regen thing just irks me on top of the Defense/Perception issues out there as well...meh.
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin

Last edited by virusdancer; 03-22-2013 at 06:27 AM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 60
# 22
03-22-2013, 06:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
they shouldn't stack more then 1. Problem with them fixed.
I agree. With Saurians we had the efficiency equation as a safeguard. With Romulans, I believe they coded it so that a ship can only have one of each type, but I believe you can have as many types as you want. Perhaps it needs to be added is that a ship can have as many humans as the person wants but only benefits from 2 of them.

A bad potential fix I see is re-doing the equasion based upon someone using 5 of them. Then, for those of us who only use 2 of them anyways, they become pretty much useless again. For the klinks who used their T4 Marauding boff to get 1 human, they would become even more useless
RHINO | SAD PANDAS
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,537
# 23
03-22-2013, 12:28 PM
So I decided to check with my three main Feds as well. Even Hum'd up the Tac. All numbers reflect 100% crew.

Eng
104 Starship Hull Repair
2x Human BOFFs
Borg +5.1

Sol(login) - 171.4%
SB24(arrive) - 171.4%
SB24(combat) - 69.4%
SB24(post combat) - 171.4%
SB24(post death) - 159.3%
SB24(combat/post death) - 69.4%
SB24(post combat/post death) - 171.4%
Sol(post SB24) - 171.4%

Sci
99 Starship Hull Repair
1x Human BOFF

Sol(login) - 143..3%
SB24(arrive) - 143..3%
SB24(combat) - 43.8%
SB24(post combat) - 143..3%
SB24(post death) - 125.4%
SB24(combat/post death) - 25.9%
SB24(post combat/post death) - 143.3%
Sol (post SB24) - 143.3%

Tac
117 Starship Hull Repair
5x Human BOFFs
1x SIF Mk XI (+17.5)

Sol(login) - 311.8%
SB24(arrive) - 311.8%
SB24(combat) - 181.9%
SB24(post combat) - 311.8%
SB24(post death) - 217.6%
SB24(combat/post death) - 108.5%
SB24(post combat/post death) - 286.3%
Sol(post SB24) - 311.8%

Remove/Replace SIF - 299.2%
Then Remove/Replace Human - 311.8%

I was going to rerun it with my level 13 guy as well, but I noticed something while doing these (noticed, but did not note unfortunately). Even these numbers were not consistent. Sure, those base numbers - but the post death stuff...the combat stuff...that varied almost all the time (even at full crew). As if it were counting or not counting gear/BOFFs randomly. Though, there's likely some method to the madness. No, I was careful to watch for Vet bonus/Eng Fleet things (ran these multiple times - have to clear out my inventory and sell some goodies...lol).

But yeah, there's an issue there with regard to the Human BOFFs (and SIF Gens)...
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 405
# 24
03-22-2013, 07:31 PM
I had posted about this the day they fixed it that there might be a problem. I very quickly got flamed and smacked down for my observations.

Before the change, I had all Surians, and my hull repair out of combat was 168, 69 in combat with full crew. Now its 318 out and 176 in. My Breen ship went from having a slightly more efficient warp core, to running HE2 at all times.

When I DO run Elite STFs, my escort should NOT be able to tank a tac cube or gateway without any worry whatsoever.

Cruiser had to work very hard to dent an escort before the change. Now, a cruiser with any weapon combination whatsoever will never put a dent into anything with 5 human boffs, let alone an escort.

Humans went from worthless to absolutely insane. Is there nothing in between?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,467
# 25
03-22-2013, 08:12 PM
Humanity, Frak Yeah!


Human officers are working as intended, and I love them.


Nerf them and my Nerd Rage will by mighty!
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 259
# 26
03-22-2013, 08:16 PM
some pure maths I did not that long ago:
103.5% hull repair with 4 human boffs
17.8% no boffs

103.5 - 17.8
0.857 * 46011
39431.427 / 60
657.19 hull repair per second
Well escorts in PvP deal 1500-3500 over the entire match on average (for a good player), for a good opponent that is more like 2000 so that is approx 1/4 of hull damage resisted.
I am no longer PvPing on my main until this bug is fixed then since I do not wish to replace my human boffs that I got before the bug occured.
Thing is no matter how you scale the hull repair it will end up unfair for a great deal of players (escort attacking vs crusier attacking, so will amplify the to much resist in game problem), the mechinic should be trashed entirely and the subsystem repair buffed a lot or something (because that is incredibly useful in PvP esp if you have no points in subsystem repair). Or it could be scaled to hull resists (so 1% hull damage resist per boff + 0.1% per 100 crew or something).

math continued:
657 / 46011
0.01427919410575731890200169524679 * 100
1.43% of hull is regerated from 4 human boffs
that would be per second and is in combat (all numbers)

Starfleet M.A.C.O. KDF Honour Guard

Last edited by afree100; 03-22-2013 at 09:02 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,529
# 27
03-22-2013, 09:45 PM
I already tested hull repair rates and the leadership trait. It seems that almost no one read my threads. See here:

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...31&postcount=3
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=569281

The first post linked above has test data and a formula for calculating the hull repair rate.

Last edited by frtoaster; 03-22-2013 at 09:57 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,529
# 28
03-22-2013, 09:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Okay, are you talking 0 Able Crew or 0 Alive Crew? That might be where we're talking about different things - though, I agree that whether you're talking 0 Able or 0 Alive - there should be no passive hull regen coming from crew. Yes, I've seen it with 0 Able...but I haven't seen it with 0 Alive. But again, I haven't looked in weeks.
The hull repair rate depends on able crew, not alive crew. But that only affects the "normal" hull repair rate. The bonus you get from leadership is not affected by crew, nor is it cut by 1/6 in combat like the "normal" hull repair rate.

Alive crew doesn't regenerate during combat. I don't know if that's a bug or not. The crew repair rates reported by the UI don't seem to apply to able crew or alive crew. I think the crew recovery mechanics are probably not working correctly.

Last edited by frtoaster; 03-22-2013 at 09:58 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,537
# 29
03-23-2013, 02:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by frtoaster View Post
The hull repair rate depends on able crew, not alive crew. But that only affects the "normal" hull repair rate. The bonus you get from leadership is not affected by crew, nor is it cut by 1/6 in combat like the "normal" hull repair rate.
Out of Combat
5x Human BOFFs 311.8%
0 Human BOFFs 155.9%

In Combat
5x Human BOFFs 181.9%
0 Human BOFFs 26.0%

0 Crew (Theta - In Combat)
5x Human BOFFs 121.2%
0 Human BOFFs 6.5%

That was from Ker'rat. Took forever to find somebody to drop Theta...meh.

Yet, in SB24...at 101/700 Crew - the repair rate was 39%.

Disruptor Breach.

Need to find somebody with Disruptors to shoot me - see if the same thing happens there.

edit: Thanks to @nixtux for testing at Cracked. Appears it's just the NPC version that does it. The player one didn't.

edit2: Course one thing that stood out was how the recalculations are off - had to reset BOFFs to get it back to the base rate after each death.
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin

Last edited by virusdancer; 03-23-2013 at 02:37 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 361
# 30
03-23-2013, 03:11 AM
these numbers are incredibly high and unfair for ships with more crew, the ammount of hull regen now is absurd, and even more unfair for klingons

and the most stupid part on this, is that if you are out of crew, you still have those 100% hull repair, which makes the opponent very op, considering that an escort should have low numbers of hull repair, they now have their lack of tanking compensated by this stupid issue

my transphasic torpedos cant do a S++t against an escort without hull heals, only the cluster is doing some damage, since even if the opponent is out of crew, he still has incredibly high numbers of hull repair and subsystem repair, that's another point, it makes disable skills almost useless, like if apo was't enough.

so theta now is useless, for the job you should rather use a ewp
it's not the ship or the build, it's the atitude
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