Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,519
# 51
03-22-2013, 02:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by havam View Post
but thats the point, compare a tac.sci with an eng/sci. One has a niche, the other doesn't..... We need synergy for the eng class badly. Pressure damage is one thing, but even if it is a sci ship as healer, we need a meaningful that an eng can do in that position.
The Eng doesn't participate in "The Kill" or in "The Denial"...

The Tac is obviously needed for "The Kill" - they apply the brutal burst damage after the Sci has created that opening.
The Sci is obviously needed for "The Kill" - without creating that opening, there's just so much resist/healing possible that nobody would die.

Even in "The Denial" - the Sci can SNB off buffs that would have helped for "The Kill" or drop out Scattering Field while slinging heals.

The Eng, unless they're the target of "The Kill" - isn't doing anything. By the time they are the target of "The Kill" - they're not getting any crosshealing from anybody else - so they're additional survivability isn't going to help them much. Pop!

Each Career should bring something to the Team - something to "The Kill", to "The Denial", or even to both.

Each Career should have some form of Synergy in each Ship. Depending on the Team, they might roll different ways with different Careers in different Ships - it wouldn't just be the standard cookie cutter stuff we have.

Course, the obvious danger there is that folks might find easy ways to exploit any such system. Might see five folks of the same Career in five different Ships - because there's just something about that Synergy that makes it "OP" compared to the rest. Maybe it's the three different Careers in the same five Ships. It could end up with less diversity than there is now.

I know I've said it elsewhere, but I'm really starting to get burnt out on PvP in this game. I'm playing less. When I do play, I'm most likely just to run through DOFFs and then log. I think I've spent most of my time logged in as a glitched KDF hunting BoPs that are hunting juicy Fed targets...thinking ahead, perhaps, to what Ker'rat might be like with Roms in there.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 556
# 52
03-22-2013, 02:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
In PvE, without it - yeah...who would notice if it was missing? NPCs don't buff up like Players.

I believe that's where they're (the complaining Sci folk) are coming from.

In PvE ... If you're bringing a Sci Vessel along for some control/etc - you want a Tac in it.

That Tac will not only do more damage with the actual weapons of the ship, they'll also do more damage with the Sci abilities. They'll bring FoMM which the NPCs aren't spamming TT and clearing. Tac Init will refresh their few Tac abilities faster - giving them that lil' extra edge as well. They'll bring another copy of Tac Fleet to run in the rotation to maximize the group's damage through the encounter. Heck, they take some hull damage and pop GDF - even more damage.

If the Sci abilities were buffed for damage because they could no longer be affected by Tac abilities...then anybody, Tac/Eng/Sci would be doing the same damage with those abilities. Only the Tac could also boost the weapon damage coming from that Sci Vessel. The Tac would still do the most damage in it. The Tac would still bring more in the Sci than the Sci - since SNB would still be meh.

What it would change though - is the amount of damage the Sci did bring in that Sci. They might get fewer tells complaining that they're there.

It's kind of easy to see where they grumble about certain things like that.

Tac - brings additional damage to whatever ship they're in - it's not going to be the maximum DPS they could do - but they bring additional damage than what an Eng or Sci could bring to those ships.

Tac in a Cruiser? They boost the damage while being able to toss the heals.
Tac in a Sci? They boost the damage while being able to sling the control.

True, neither the Tac nor Eng can drop out SNB...that's PvP vs. PvE though.

It's pretty easy to see where they're coming from on certain things. It's also pretty easy to see ... there's no getting around that in PvE the Tac is going to be better.
I was going to say something like this, you beat me to it. I think the biggest complaint is in PvE. This is in the wrong forum section. In STFs a Sci/Sci needs more damage to be worthwhile to the team (as does Eng/Eng TBO)

The solution may be twofold...
1. Give NPCs buffs that SNB can be useful against
2. Make NPCs do more tankable damage and less 1-shots that even Eng/Eng have trouble with

Of course this has all been said before, the newer crowds just keep coming to the same conclusions after a while.

In PvE there is no reason to play anything but Tac in space.

(PS. why is it so bad if 5 Sci/Sci can kill a guy with Science but okay that 5 Tac/Tac can do the same thing?)
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 556
# 53
03-22-2013, 02:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
...
I know I've said it elsewhere, but I'm really starting to get burnt out on PvP in this game. I'm playing less. When I do play, I'm most likely just to run through DOFFs and then log.
...
I feel the same way. It has been a long 3 years and starting over again as Romulan, even though I wanted it, is not as appealing with the current system.

Hopefully we get some BIG changes in May other than just a new faction and content. Maybe some balance mechanics, PvP, and some form of AI.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,175
# 54
03-22-2013, 06:21 PM
im only going to talk about pvp, were this stuff maters and all that. i give little concern to pve, since it can be done in a shuttle. they made the vesta so sci captains in pve could have sci ships that can deal damage more like an escort, have at. nothing is ever going to out do a tac in pve, not unless its all reimagined.

Quote:
Originally Posted by havam View Post
but thats the point, compare a tac.sci with an eng/sci. One has a niche, the other doesn't..... We need synergy for the eng class badly. Pressure damage is one thing, but even if it is a sci ship as healer, we need a meaningful that an eng can do in that position.
i agree that thats the point, but theres far to much focus on the destruction of a niche, instead of the restoration of eng captains, cruisers, and anything thats not a tac in an escort.

save your breath until bort is done playing with his christiline toy though.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 361
# 55
03-23-2013, 04:14 AM
Quote:
We need synergy for the eng class badly
and less synergy for tacs, no more boost to fbp
it's not the ship or the build, it's the atitude
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 778
# 56
03-23-2013, 06:02 AM


But I like my 1.3 damage reflect FBP 2 on my Tac/MVAE.
The first we heard of getting new PvP maps "soon" was in August of 2010. We're consistently told something will be coming with the "next" update. Absolutely nothing has come to PvP since launch.

I think it's finally time Cryptic stopped stringing us along, don't you?
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 361
# 57
03-23-2013, 06:29 AM
yeah ... i can't reach more than 0.93 with fb3, max particle generators, 4 prtg consoles , 125 aux and khg deflector
it's not the ship or the build, it's the atitude
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 778
# 58
03-23-2013, 06:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borgresearcher View Post
yeah ... i can't reach more than 0.93 with fb3, max particle generators, 4 prtg consoles , 125 aux and khg deflector
Throw in a Sensor Scan and AP: Delta.
The first we heard of getting new PvP maps "soon" was in August of 2010. We're consistently told something will be coming with the "next" update. Absolutely nothing has come to PvP since launch.

I think it's finally time Cryptic stopped stringing us along, don't you?
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 59
03-23-2013, 09:19 AM
i made this same thread a while ago and basically got told

"deal with it"


such nice people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,175
# 60
03-23-2013, 11:32 AM
so petty, i don't have what i want, so others need to have it taken away. lobby for your own class to be improved, instead of another class nerfed, and people would be nicer
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
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