Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,766
# 351
03-26-2013, 10:56 AM
I still think the issue lies in DPS designed mission objectives that do not challenge the players or require any skill past pew-pew.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,504
# 352
03-26-2013, 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
I still think the issue lies in DPS designed mission objectives that do not challenge the players or require any skill past pew-pew.
I agree.

Cryptic attempted to do something different with class based objectives/accolades in missions. It would be great to expand upon that idea to encourage teaming.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,351
# 353
03-26-2013, 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicha0 View Post
I'm going to disagree a little here. The problem isn't beams or cannons at all, its the massive disparity between incompetent and an expert player. In most games you might get 50% difference in skill from one player to another? STO its 1000%, go PUG some elite STFs, combatlog and find DHC users putting out 1-2k DPS, and compare that to a 15k DPS escort. There are cruisers regularly doing less than 1k DPS while mine can hit up to 10k.

Bad builds are boring. Cannon or beams if you are hitting for nothing, its just not exciting. I have a lot of fun in a beam boat once I got it set up right.

Escorts aren't an I win button, I see them out DPSed by good cruisers all the time, most people just can't fly them effectively. Having the escort build 75% correct makes you literally only 20% of the damage, which makes you a failure.
What if you take the same player/build and switch from beams to cannons (along with requisite boff abilities) and the damage is increased significantly? My Excelsiors' Single cannon/ Turret build is way more effective than my dbb or ba builds. Even using techniques to maximize arc/coverage, the beams are noticeably weaker.

Good or bad player/build or not, Beams will do less damage compared to cannon builds.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,979
# 354
03-26-2013, 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicha0 View Post
I have a lot of fun in a beam boat once I got it set up right
well that was kind of my point wasnt it.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 355
03-26-2013, 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicha0 View Post
Its the reverse for raptors and escorts, while a fed cruiser isn't as good as a kdf cruiser, a kdf raptor can't hold up to fed escorts.

Anyone that has seen my eng's cruiser perform in any STF will know this whole thread is total bull.
This. In terms of PvP, the Federation has the advantage in escort-level ships and science ships. The KDF advantages are in battlecruisers and BoP, with the minor first-strike advantage of the in-built cloak.

In a place like Ker'rat, with the Federation almost always outnumbering the KDF, it more than balances out. In an arena, it probably depends on the pilots and how they use their ships. BoPs are still viable in arena PvP, but it takes skill to pull it off without getting blasted to pieces repeatedly. Battlecruisers are fine attackers and self-tankers, and can probably be used as healers. . .but that's a waste of potential. Better to use a carrier for that, imo.

Federation escorts outperform raptors in direct combat (slight edge in turning, more ship options, probably slightly more shield on some models), and their science ships are a nightmare in the right hands. They also got carrier options, something that used to be a KDF exclusive. . .and the Federation was still capable of holding their own in PvP without carriers.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,351
# 356
03-26-2013, 09:30 PM
This isn't about faction, but weapon types. Im sure there are plenty of people that would use their Bortas'qu and some of the piggier KDF ships alot more if beamswere more effective.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,351
# 357
03-26-2013, 09:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ursusmorologus View Post
well that was kind of my point wasnt it.
Please, enlighten us to what "set-up right" is.
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 336
# 358
03-26-2013, 10:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingmaster View Post
This. In terms of PvP, the Federation has the advantage in escort-level ships and science ships. The KDF advantages are in battlecruisers and BoP, with the minor first-strike advantage of the in-built cloak.

In a place like Ker'rat, with the Federation almost always outnumbering the KDF, it more than balances out. In an arena, it probably depends on the pilots and how they use their ships. BoPs are still viable in arena PvP, but it takes skill to pull it off without getting blasted to pieces repeatedly. Battlecruisers are fine attackers and self-tankers, and can probably be used as healers. . .but that's a waste of potential. Better to use a carrier for that, imo.

Federation escorts outperform raptors in direct combat (slight edge in turning, more ship options, probably slightly more shield on some models), and their science ships are a nightmare in the right hands. They also got carrier options, something that used to be a KDF exclusive. . .and the Federation was still capable of holding their own in PvP without carriers.
Hmm?

What's stopping a Klingon player from using a battlecruiser like a healer?

Both factions have their relative advantages and disadvantages, and have things that the other does not. I'll admit that KDF is somewhat underdeveloped compared to Starfleet (which I consider to be somewhat bloated with content), but you are still crying foul over every advantage you perceive the Federation to have. In the case of Federation cruisers however, you must realize that cruisers are only capable of doing one thing well. Furthermore, unlike KDF battlecruisers, Federation cruisers do not appear to have been designed with carriers in mind; if you have recently compared Fed's options for carriers to their cruisers, you'll notice that carriers are actually better than the cruisers in practically every respect worth noting.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,233
# 359
03-28-2013, 10:13 AM
I keep looking for a beam setup that actually doesn't make me fly away and switch out my loadout mid mission. I haven't found it. People say they have it. I never see it.

I want to find it. Every time I try one it makes me want to cry. Please, beam gods, share your secrets!
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,351
# 360
03-28-2013, 10:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmym View Post
I keep looking for a beam setup that actually doesn't make me fly away and switch out my loadout mid mission. I haven't found it. People say they have it. I never see it.

I want to find it. Every time I try one it makes me want to cry. Please, beam gods, share your secrets!
That is exactly what I have been asking for, yet those who claim to have the right set-up never seem to post it. Go figure.
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