Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 336
# 141
03-27-2013, 12:40 AM
I'm sorry, but why does the Federation need a cloaking device?
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,619
# 142
03-27-2013, 01:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eraserfish View Post
I'm sorry, but why does the Federation need a cloaking device?
They think it'll make them better than they really are, while ignoring the fact that with superior ships, superior VARIETY of ships, a higher average level on the Rep grinds and higher than KDF average level on Fleet equipment, they're losing matches against players who've had only the BEST Feds to fight in the ques most of the time, players who've had to learn to max out INFERIOR designs and who've as a result developed stronger teamwork and base strategies to fight those superior ships.

the Typical Feddie Pug in C&H and Arena does not work at all well together, they either "Kirk it up" or hoard their heals and buffs and leave their teammates hanging out isolated and unsupported against KDF enemies who've HAD to learn to work as a team because of serious deficiencies in their ship designs relative to the Fed average.

This is REALLY visible in Ker'rat, where the best the Feds can manage is to ball up and spawncamp the KDF spawn-point, and that only works when they outnumber their opponents more than 3 to 1.

Fed players who consistently fail to understand the advantages they already enjoy, want Cloak/Battlecloak because they think that those are HOW the KDF is beating them-rather than understanding that BC is the only thing that makes the Bird of Prey class VIABLE.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 297
# 143
03-27-2013, 01:23 AM
Federation already has the fleet defiant with 5 tatical consoles and cloak.This ship is the best alfa decloaking hitter among escorts.
There is no kdf counterpart to fleet defiant in this moment.
Originally Posted by zipagat :
"There already is a Borg faction, its called the Federation. They assimilate everyone else's technology and remove any biological or technical distinctiveness and add it to their own."
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 336
# 144
03-27-2013, 02:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
They think it'll make them better than they really are, while ignoring the fact that with superior ships, superior VARIETY of ships, a higher average level on the Rep grinds and higher than KDF average level on Fleet equipment, they're losing matches against players who've had only the BEST Feds to fight in the ques most of the time, players who've had to learn to max out INFERIOR designs and who've as a result developed stronger teamwork and base strategies to fight those superior ships.

the Typical Feddie Pug in C&H and Arena does not work at all well together, they either "Kirk it up" or hoard their heals and buffs and leave their teammates hanging out isolated and unsupported against KDF enemies who've HAD to learn to work as a team because of serious deficiencies in their ship designs relative to the Fed average.

This is REALLY visible in Ker'rat, where the best the Feds can manage is to ball up and spawncamp the KDF spawn-point, and that only works when they outnumber their opponents more than 3 to 1.

Fed players who consistently fail to understand the advantages they already enjoy, want Cloak/Battlecloak because they think that those are HOW the KDF is beating them-rather than understanding that BC is the only thing that makes the Bird of Prey class VIABLE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dova25 View Post
Federation already has the fleet defiant with 5 tatical consoles and cloak.This ship is the best alfa decloaking hitter among escorts.
There is no kdf counterpart to fleet defiant in this moment.
I believe that the beef is with Federation escorts, here...

As for variety on the Federation side, I have to say that a lot of ships are not much more than chaff. For what it's worth, at least Klingons are not in a position where two of their main ship categories can do nothing but support the third. Insofar actual superiority is concerned, this is only really evident with escorts, and I think you are underrepresenting the contributions of your other ship categories, or the fact that KDF has some very nice Universal Consoles.

That being said, I agree with the notion that battle cloak is actually necessary for birds of prey, and that Federation does not really need cloaking capabilities. Furthermore, cloaking is very distinctively a Klingon thing and is arguably integral to the design of their faction. That being said, I would like the phase cloak to be brought in, eventually.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 462
# 145
03-27-2013, 04:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eraserfish View Post
I'm sorry, but why does the Federation need a cloaking device?
You want the story answer or the game mechanics answer? Not sure, allrighty, I'll give you both.

From a story standpoint, it is irresponsible, immoral and unethical to allow the KDF and RSE to hold a tactical advantage that will cost the Federation lives in both their wars with those powers and in their dealings with larger threats. The treaties and alliances that served as a counter point to this, giving the Federation reason to abstain from that research, are no longer compelling because they are legally dubious in the case of the Khitomer Accords or non-existent, in the case of an alliance with the Klingon Empire.

From a game mechanics standpoint. People want to be able to experience all the positives the game has to offer without having to put up with the negatives. For some players a positive is a battle cloaking ship and a negative are the abrasive whiners that seem to fill the ranks of the KDF. For other players a positive is a five forward firing glass cannon with five consoles, and a negative would be the abrasive whiners that seem to fill the ranks of the Federation.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 527
# 146
03-27-2013, 05:22 AM
The only reason the Federation doesn't use cloaks is because of a treaty the signed with thr Romulans back when Picard was in command of the 1701 - D. That treaty has long since been negated by wars and other events with the Romulans. The federation should have cloaks on more ships now, im not saying every ship but more than they have right now.
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 336
# 147
03-27-2013, 06:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jermbot View Post
You want the story answer or the game mechanics answer? Not sure, allrighty, I'll give you both.

From a story standpoint, it is irresponsible, immoral and unethical to allow the KDF and RSE to hold a tactical advantage that will cost the Federation lives in both their wars with those powers and in their dealings with larger threats. The treaties and alliances that served as a counter point to this, giving the Federation reason to abstain from that research, are no longer compelling because they are legally dubious in the case of the Khitomer Accords or non-existent, in the case of an alliance with the Klingon Empire.

From a game mechanics standpoint. People want to be able to experience all the positives the game has to offer without having to put up with the negatives. For some players a positive is a battle cloaking ship and a negative are the abrasive whiners that seem to fill the ranks of the KDF. For other players a positive is a five forward firing glass cannon with five consoles, and a negative would be the abrasive whiners that seem to fill the ranks of the Federation.
But from a story standpoint, it is equally acceptable to state that Starfleet does not have nearly as much experience operating cloaking devices as those two, and have had trouble integrating them on their ships. It could also be said that the Federation has decided not to invest into cloaking devices, for the same reasons why they do not pursue development of technology that they may consider underhanded (and all things considered, a cloaking device is rather shady). That being said, I don't think that Starfleet should be completely deprived of cloaking devices, and that the whole "phase cloak" thing shown in TNG should make an appearance.

As for a game mechanics standpoint, I think it's just another case of "why does he have that, I want one too".
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 148
03-27-2013, 06:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lexusk19 View Post
The only reason the Federation doesn't use cloaks is because of a treaty the signed with thr Romulans back when Picard was in command of the 1701 - D. That treaty has long since been negated by wars and other events with the Romulans. The federation should have cloaks on more ships now, im not saying every ship but more than they have right now.
While I find it completely idiotic, the Federation is still upholding the Treaty of Algeron per the path to 2409 lore provided by Cryptic.

There was another Pegasus-type incident a few years after the Hobus supernova that inflamed tensions with the Klingons and the remnants of the Romulan Empire. To try and defuse all of that the Fed President basically said "well we're under no legal obligation to do so, but we're going to keep functioning under the terms of the treaty".
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 579
# 149
03-27-2013, 06:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
While I find it completely idiotic, the Federation is still upholding the Treaty of Algeron per the path to 2409 lore provided by Cryptic.

There was another Pegasus-type incident a few years after the Hobus supernova that inflamed tensions with the Klingons and the remnants of the Romulan Empire. To try and defuse all of that the Fed President basically said "well we're under no legal obligation to do so, but we're going to keep functioning under the terms of the treaty".
I'll say there's one thing consistent between STO lore and the Destiny novels - the Federation Presidents are all imbeciles.
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 336
# 150
03-27-2013, 06:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lizwei View Post
I'll say there's one thing consistent between STO lore and the Destiny novels - the Federation Presidents are all imbeciles.
Such was the case in DS9, as well.

Speaking of authority, it seems as if the Starfleet Admiralty has a disturbing tendency to be made up of admirals who are either incompetent, insane or alien parasites. Out of all admirals I've seen in the series, only Maxwell was anywhere close to being competent.
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