Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 91
03-25-2013, 10:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borgresearcher View Post
definitely they should make damage, even more damage than they do now, but not boosted my tactical buffs that should only boost starship weapons training, increasing only the damage of torpedos and energy weapons, leaving the rest for debuffs.
Again, this logic does not work.


How about once a Sci captain uses SNB or Sensor Scan all of his weapons and tactical powers become locked for 30s?

Because if Tacs shouldn't be able to generate an effect using Sci powers + Captain abilities, then Sci captains shouldn't be able to generate an effect using SNB + SS followed by Torp spreads or weapons fire.


Do you see why that doesn't work?


Just so your clear on why one is actually more powerful than the other.

The Tac self buffs his damage, +50%, though APA - it's huge and makes big pretty numbers that players love to see.

The Sci can strip all buffs, all of them. The target who was running 50% or higher shield resistances, only to see those stripped away down to whatever his current shield power provides will now eat more damage than APA could have generated on its own.

That's a force multiplier, depending on how many allies are now firing on the target.

Force multiplier, that's what Sci captains are, and that's why they hold the most powerful role in the game and why it's considered cheese to bring 5 of them.



If you really think a Tac captain buffing FBP or TBR is the height of great things, you haven't properly evaluated how strong SNB and SS are in comparison.

Two powers that can, in effect, do what the Tac Captain does with FBP except they can do it for the entire team, and for every single offensive power and weapon, and even other captain's abilities, that the team can bring to bear all at once.


Last edited by ussultimatum; 03-25-2013 at 11:11 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 17,914
# 92
03-25-2013, 11:21 AM
Personally, I'm all for removing SNB from the game and rebalancing everything as if it didn't exist. It's silly how much PvP hinges on that ability...yet in PvE? /cough
Willard the Rat, Klingon, Sci (60), U.S.S. Tong Vey, Geneva Command Battlecruiser (FT6), Inner Circle
Meena, Ferasan, Tac (57), I.K.S. vagh SuD bas, B'rel Retrofit Bird-of-Prey (T5U), Ho'ragh
[WIP] No-Fleet, T5U B'rel Retrofit Build
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,788
# 93
03-25-2013, 11:39 AM
A tactical captain making scientific powers more effective?

Why not have Worf sit at the Science station of the Enterprise so he can really rip apart any threat to the Enterprise using the Enterprise's science abilities? Sound foolish? Of course it is, yet that foolishness is conveniently ignored when it comes to tac captains wanting the very best for themselves as they think of themselves as royalty.

As I posted in another thread, I was in a PvP with a Vesta. I had 125 Aux and I have 9 in particle generators and I use one purple Mk XII particle generator console. I was attacked by an Andorian escort piloted by a tac captain AWAY from the main battle, as in just him, just me. As he closed in to attack attack I hit Feedback pulse III, Tactical Team I, EPtS II and Pol Hull I.

In less than 5 seconds he had ripped through my shields, destroyed my hull and had 93% of his hull left. It's an Andorian escort, a supposed glass cannon.

How is this fair? Why should non escort, non tactical people suffer like this.

Ordinarily I'd be playing STO about this time of the day. Don't really feel like it now. I'm thinking that I (and my wallet) need to take a break from the game. Fairness is hardly an improper request of any game yet so many blatantly selfish people can't bear to have their set-ups changed without crying foul. Cryptic, YOU have allowed this mentality to thrive. You don't have the conviction to make a fair game. A VERY cowardly act. Shame on you.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 94
03-25-2013, 11:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Personally, I'm all for removing SNB from the game and rebalancing everything as if it didn't exist. It's silly how much PvP hinges on that ability...yet in PvE? /cough

I realize that you seem to have a particular pet peeve with captain skills and basically post at least every few days advocating the removal of SNB from the game.

Regardless, here is Bort and by extension the systems team weighing in on SNB.


Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic
Not likely to be changed from its current state. Its relative value in combat scenarios is felt to be more-or-less on par with other professions' Captain Powers, such as Attack Pattern Alpha, Go Down Fighting, Miracle Worker and Rotate Shield Frequencies.



Perhaps it's better to focus your energies on things that are realistic rather than hoping the current game mechanics will be almost completely re-written?

Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 17,914
# 95
03-25-2013, 12:08 PM
borg, it's one of those things where this thread might have been better off posted outside the PvP forums.
Willard the Rat, Klingon, Sci (60), U.S.S. Tong Vey, Geneva Command Battlecruiser (FT6), Inner Circle
Meena, Ferasan, Tac (57), I.K.S. vagh SuD bas, B'rel Retrofit Bird-of-Prey (T5U), Ho'ragh
[WIP] No-Fleet, T5U B'rel Retrofit Build

Last edited by virusdancer; 03-25-2013 at 12:15 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 361
# 96
03-26-2013, 03:32 AM
nah, it's cool, but its impressive how the community reacts to this kind of things, everything is cool for em, but they whine in game like some tasmanian devils, it's unfair that tacs can boost
every single thing in the game, subnuke is not what you think ussu, you can use st to clear it, and you might still use teams, for example, if you are subnuked, you still can use tactical team or rsp to mitigate some damage, even if you dont have a science team to clear the effect of subnuke, but we are not talking about captain skills, the only captain skill i think its really bad is nadion inversion, im talking that tacs can boost sci skills better than scientists, and scientists dont have that kind of synergy on tactical skills, anyway, fbp need's to stop beeing boosted by tacs, fbp is reaching absurd numbers without prtg or any aux at all, at least in that someone's gotta agree
it's not the ship or the build, it's the atitude
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 97
03-26-2013, 06:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borgresearcher View Post
subnuke is not what you think ussu,
No, it is in fact exactly what I think it is.

I have the good fortune of regularly playing with some truly amazing Sci players.




Quote:
Originally Posted by borgresearcher View Post
you can use st to clear it, and you might still use teams, for example, if you are subnuked, you still can use tactical team or rsp to mitigate some damage,
Unless of course Subnuc was used to remove RSP, and Tac Team and APA.

It's the THE trump card, and unlike virus who thinks it should be removed from the game - I do not.

Subnuc is exactly where it should be.


Properly used it is the ultimate force multiplier, the king of setting up kills.

I see no issue with this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by borgresearcher View Post
even if you dont have a science team to clear the effect of subnuke,
Clear subnuc?

Clearing subnuc is the booby prize, against a well played Sci when you've been subnuc'd the damage has often already been done.

Either your best buffs have stripped and you are dead, or your APA as a Tac or RSF as an Eng have been stripped off of you.



Quote:
Originally Posted by borgresearcher View Post
but we are not talking about captain skills, the only captain skill i think its really bad is nadion inversion, im talking that tacs can boost sci skills better than scientists,

You're not talking about captain skills you are only talking about tacs that can boost science skills through their captain skills?

Or how else are tac captains buffing those science skills "better"?

And in this case "better" to you means "more damage", which is missing the point of Sci captains.

This might come as a terrible shock, but Tac captains are the class intended to do the most damage.



Quote:
Originally Posted by borgresearcher View Post
and scientists dont have that kind of synergy on tactical skills
Except I've already explained the synergy to you.

It's SNB + SS.

They don't create big, easy to see, pretty number floaters on your screen.

They are the kings of force multiplication.


That synergy you keep talking about?


They have that synergy for entire teams, every weapon your team has, every offensive power and sci debuff your team has.


The synergy is there, it's just not written in numbers on the screen for players to see.

Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 361
# 98
03-27-2013, 03:20 AM
yes, science officeres rule, although you are a tac

please, stop quoting every single thread i do, i can see you are fine with tacs doing sci's job better than scientists, causing the nerf of science skills

and it's amazing how you didn't speak about fbp, yes tacs should be the ones making more damage, but they shouldn't mess with the other classes, they should only boost weapons and projectile trainning, all kind of consoles work better on tacs, and AGAIN, how can tacs boost the incoming damage, making a fbp2 without prtg to reach 1.3 reflection ? i can't reach 0.9 in my fbp3 with prtg maxed and 125 aux
imagine a chel grett with 2 copies of fbp, reaching those too high numbers, that would cause the enemy to not attack you, giving you the tanking, the damage part should be easy with the tac stations, dont you think it is op?

yes virus i should make this post on the pve section, they at least, dont simply make a tac, and just sit because they have the best class/skills/ships, tanking as good as the other classes, and boosting every single skill and console they can

and let me explain something to you, since it seems you never played a sci at all

sensor scan is cleared by science team, just like fire on my mark is by tac team, that synergy you talk is wrong, its very easy to counter a subnuke and a sensor scan combo, you just need a science team, and a rsp waiting

dont tell me a science strike is better than a tac's just because you saw your rsp3 or whatever taken away

Quote:
They are the kings of force multiplication.

That synergy you keep talking about?
you can BS your dog, but please, don't BS me
it's not the ship or the build, it's the atitude

Last edited by borgresearcher; 03-27-2013 at 03:41 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,693
# 99
03-27-2013, 04:03 AM
only have one thing to add (which may probably already was stated. did not read the whole thread now):
tacs do the damage, yep. but in pvp scis kill! that simple.
nothing can be more effective than a good specced sci in wells, vesta, fleet-recon-vessel, (add your fav). this i had to learn the hard way ;D...
thx.

btw: i do not know a single tac-scort who carries sci-team at all, due to shared cd with tt ^^ (may i do but do not know about )...

Klink: House of Beautiful - J'Luc/Rom: Lag Industries - D'Waste/Fed-Sci: Lag Industries - IAM
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PvP improvements, since 2010 lol
/50+ Fleet-, Lobi- and Lockboxships=unreclaimable trash

Last edited by wast33; 03-27-2013 at 04:09 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 361
# 100
03-27-2013, 04:07 AM
i didn't say science's are weak,
but make a sci build with the same ship
, with a tac and a sci, and i bet the tac wins
it's not the ship or the build, it's the atitude
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