Captain
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 615
# 11
03-27-2013, 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the1tigglet View Post
Can't tell if he's joking or being sarcastic. Really? 1 whole science skill is having a bug of somekind? Bet you're flying an escort aren't you op.

How about all of the other science skills aren't worth a d*mn because we continuously have to deal with a magic buff system that tacticals use. That's right, how exactly do they do those bonuses to damage again? Engineer increases power, science have actual theory behind it, what does Tactical have again? Oh they just blast thru your shields and then send quantumns to finish you off. yeah that's valid.

Makes me wonder if you've played the game at all.

So here's my deal. Do us all a favor and go out and make a science captain max him out, gear him appropriately oh and two things. You HAVE to use beams and beams only, and you have to use a science ship.

Try pvping in this and then come back to this post and let us know exactly what happened. I can guarantee you that you had the worst pvp pve experience of your life in any game.
Yeah cheers DH!
Ive got a sci toon and still think somethings fishy about the skill at times.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,587
# 12
03-27-2013, 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by seansamurai1 View Post
Right, Ive held off now for sometime but I cant now.

Ive just about had it with the one sided nature of this game at times.

Sci skills that are so over the top its unreal.

I like (Or liked) to PvP, Im not bad, theres people better than me but I can hold my own.
However lately its becoming apparent that there are a growing number of people who can somehow make escorts and bug ships totally indestructable, like 5 escorts on one bug ship with no shields and he doesnt take any damage at all!!! That sort of stuff.

However, I digress. Sci powers like subnuc3 just take the utter p*ss, debuffs active skills and screws your countdown timers up, oh and its stackable. Ive had countdowns on tac teams at 50 minutes in the past and it lasted a good minute and a half before it reset.
Now you may well say engineering team or sci team (whichever it is) debuffs it! Really? Cos the last time I tried that, subnuc actually shut that skill down, along with everything else that Id used or not used, so I couldnt debuff at all, or defend myself for that matter.

Another thats a p*ss take is 100% shield pass through with energy weapons. What buff does that? I havent found it yet and the people I ask just say 'My little secret'. In my eyes that raises suspicions as to the legitemacy of some of these players.

When is Cryptic actually going to bother looking at a skill that cant be debuffed and is by far the most lethal skill going?

Some of you may say 'Well your team should send a team over', yeah, all well and good saying that but I dont get the opportunity to play in premades, only pug teams, like many others really. Tonight, I got hit by 7 subnuc3s in one go! Go figure when there was only 5 on the other team! They all stacked as well and took 3 minutes (even after death) to clear.

Its pretty pathetic tbh, not even being able to do what you do PvP for in the first place, thats fight.

I recently got my hands on the bugship as well, well, its a good little ship but Im interested to know how a small number have a speed so high its like they are on constant evasive manoeuvres yet seem to ignore all resistances indefinately. Ive trawled the PvP build thread and have found no definitive answer.

If anyone has some helpful input on this, it will be greatly received.
Ok, well I think you are seeing the combo of many different things all together. But you are also not telling very much about what actually happened, just general, vague examples. Were you on a Fed? A KDF? Were you doing CnH, or Arena? Was the other team a premade, or just appeared to be pugs? Was it FvF? FvK? KvK? There's just a LOT of 'unknowns' here that you didn't say that would better explain it. Don't 'name and shame' actual players, but more info would better help us understand what in the world even happened.

Like to start with...

That 'invincible Bug ship'. Was he running one or both Jem'hader consoles? Was he running Attack Pattern Omega? Did he get buffed by other people on his team with like APD, and hull heals? His defense could've been REALLY high, possibly using things like the KHG/Adapted MACO shield, and much much more.

As for the SNB part, are you sure it was ONLY SNB? Because recently there's been a wave of Boarding Party usage that when coupled with SNB, can cause HUGE cooldown stacks on your abilities and weapons. That might majorly explain your '3 minute CD timers even after death' as well.

Also, when you were SNBed, were you using a lot of buffs or anything? Because regardless of who you are, if a team decides to focus fire and SNB you while buffed up, you WILL die if not being supported in turn.

As for that 100% bleed through thing. That could be a couple things: Plasma procs are one major possibility. There's also Transphasic torps and mines. I know you said energy weapons, but still. Also there is the Omega Graviton Amplifier proc off of tier 4 Omega rep, which can proc guaranteed kinetic damage with 100% bleed through right to the hull.

And the 'my little secret' bit those players gave. Again, not enough is known of the situation. If anything they were probably just trying to keep their 'secret' because they felt they are 'l33t', and if they tell anyone their set-up, then they won't be 'l33t' anymore.

Again, on the bug, there's plenty of things. Everything from extra RCS consoles to running APO much more often due to DOFFs, along with those Jem'hader consoles. And maybe more things I'm not thinking of.

Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,387
# 13
03-27-2013, 04:52 PM
Have you looked into the aegis set? It comes with Hyper engines but also a coveriant shield. since that shield has almost no regen rate you might as well take the extra power from shields.
Captain
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 615
# 14
03-27-2013, 04:55 PM
I was playing FED Vs FED arena. The other team seemed like a PUG team, ours was a mix of PUG and premade if that makes sense.

The bug had no support ships with him as they fell rather rapidly.


I know Ill get beaten at times, thats part and parcel, but Im trying to clear up some seemingly inexplicable issues.

I do think subnuc is overpowered for the troll earlier, such a powerful skill should either have a longer cooldown or not be stackable with other subnucs.

Ive tried Aegis but never got on with it, seemed make everything squishy.

Currently Im on Borg subtranswarp engine XII
Borg Deflector XII
I alternate between the MACO XII resiliant and the Adapted MACO XII covariant shield.

Last edited by seansamurai1; 03-27-2013 at 04:57 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,587
# 15
03-27-2013, 05:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by seansamurai1 View Post
I was playing FED Vs FED arena. The other team seemed like a PUG team, ours was a mix of PUG and premade if that makes sense.

The bug had no support ships with him as they fell rather rapidly.

I know Ill get beaten at times, thats part and parcel, but Im trying to clear up some seemingly inexplicable issues.

I do think subnuc is overpowered for the troll earlier, such a powerful skill should either have a longer cooldown or not be stackable with other subnucs.
To be fair, stacking subnucs is a bad idea on a team anyways. It is a waste of using them on one target. And it has a 2 minute cooldown (thank you renimalt for the error fix). And if they were using them faster than that, then there is some exploit out there I certainly don't know of.

Now, again, it was probably the Boarding Party bug going around. You may not have seen them if the other team was using them, but they still could've been using them.

As for the troll, ignore em. Because there will ALWAYS be people out there, those who don't care about you, or others, or fair play, or anything else. They care about winning, and will gladly use whatever the flavor of the week is in terms of bugs and exploits. The ones that really do give PvPing a bad name, as this thread has shown.*

But there are also those who want a fun, interesting PvP experience and do not use things like that to their advantage. They love a fair, but challenging fight.



*That line wasn't directed at you btw, OP, or meant to be an insult to you.


Last edited by mimey2; 03-27-2013 at 05:11 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 200
# 16
03-27-2013, 05:08 PM
Mimey, it's 2min. (Plus, given how CD recharge is slowed while it's active, a 1:30 captain ability like RSF that's activated in response to SNB usually recharges almost at the same time that SNB does.)
Captain
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 615
# 17
03-27-2013, 05:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
To be fair, stacking subnucs is a bad idea on a team anyways. It is a waste of using them on one target. And it has a 2 minute cooldown (thank you renimalt for the error fix). And if they were using them faster than that, then there is some exploit out there I certainly don't know of.

Now, again, it was probably the Boarding Party bug going around. You may not have seen them if the other team was using them, but they still could've been using them.

As for the troll, ignore em. Because there will ALWAYS be people out there, those who don't care about you, or others, or fair play, or anything else. They care about winning, and will gladly use whatever the flavor of the week is in terms of bugs and exploits. The ones that really do give PvPing a bad name, as this thread has shown.*

But there are also those who want a fun, interesting PvP experience and do not use things like that to their advantage. They love a fair, but challenging fight.



*That line wasn't directed at you btw, OP, or meant to be an insult to you.
I know it wasnt directed at me bud.
The more I read the BP bug, the more it could be and combined with the usual graphics glitches or even point blank, it could well explain it.

Im a massive fan of a good fair fight, I like a challenge, I also dont mind losing as long as it was a good fight along the way.

I just cant stand skills that cant be fought or debuffed, its just a cheap way of getting the kill.

As for the troll, Im sure he realises that an alpha stack (full stack) lasts less time than any of the other skills, including ones that essentially mute the extra damage output.
Ive also seen some outstanding sci toons in Kerrat warzone tanking through 5-6 klingons and even killing 2, barely firing a shot in the process, just using sci skills.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,587
# 18
03-27-2013, 05:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by seansamurai1 View Post
I know it wasnt directed at me bud.
The more I read the BP bug, the more it could be and combined with the usual graphics glitches or even point blank, it could well explain it.

Im a massive fan of a good fair fight, I like a challenge, I also dont mind losing as long as it was a good fight along the way.

I just cant stand skills that cant be fought or debuffed, its just a cheap way of getting the kill.

As for the troll, Im sure he realises that an alpha stack (full stack) lasts less time than any of the other skills, including ones that essentially mute the extra damage output.
Ive also seen some outstanding sci toons in Kerrat warzone tanking through 5-6 klingons and even killing 2, barely firing a shot in the process, just using sci skills.
I'm 90% sure it's the BP bug. I don't know every single possible skill and combo in the game, but whatever is the worst thing being abused ATM is often times the answer.

Few people are a fan of getting killed through cheap means, bugs, and exploits. Those same people who abuse it are also generally the types to whine and complain in zone when they die.

But the moment a new bug appears, they will happily start abusing it.

True on the alpha strike, however, the fact it was SNBed off, troll or no, means they considered you a threat. So there's something to be taken from that at least, in a good way.

As for tanking 5 or 6 Klingons in Ker'rat, clearly those warriors need to be sent back to the Academy and re-learn everything.

In seriousness though, a good enough player, with the right skills and gear can be a tremendous powerhouse by themselves, all without ever having to get the slightest bit of support. So I'm not surprised they were able to pop a couple KDF by themselves, science can be brutal in the right hands.

Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,112
# 19
03-27-2013, 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by seansamurai1 View Post
Ive also seen some outstanding sci toons in Kerrat warzone tanking through 5-6 klingons and even killing 2, barely firing a shot in the process, just using sci skills.
There is nothing wrong with that though.

What you have to consider is that in order to use LT Commander and Commander sci skills. you mostly have to be in a Science ship... which has 1 less weapon slot, and most of them also have 1 less tac console at least as well.

There is nothing wrong with science skills being powerful. Also you will notice in most cases it isn't the science skills doing the majority of the dmg... as much as they setup the dmg from the sci ships weapons. One good HY from a science ship after they sub nuke and destroy your defense with a tractor or gw or vm. Is as good as a tac that has buffed the same weapon up with Omega and Alpha. Frankly its pretty balanced.

Science ships are in general the foil to DPS escorts / bops. That is by design and works fine. Klinks shouldn't be trying to go toe to toe with a proper science ship... they should have a buddy attack em... and wait in cloak for the science ships defense buffs to drop... and then drop them in one pass... no more sci magik.

There is nothing wrong with sci doing lots of dmg and debuffing with science skills.

When it comes to kerrat take everything with a grain of salt. I have seen some very poor klink dps there... and some fantastic dps as well... and some terrible fed tanking and dmg... and the opposite. Player skill level comes on both end of the spectrum.

I know that I would have no issues tanking 5-6 low dps klingons in kerrat... and I know a small handful that would kill me solo in a single pass if they set there run up right.

I guess my point is you can't take kerrat as a measuring stick of balance.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.

Last edited by antoniosalieri; 03-27-2013 at 05:49 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 883
# 20
03-27-2013, 06:13 PM
The cooldown thing could also be SS with the doffs. There's a good chance that it's all three: BP, SNB, and SS with doffs, and the OP isn't experienced enough yet to differentiate.
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