Ensign
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2
# 21
03-27-2013, 03:12 PM
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=560901 I read this over a month ago what took so long.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 197
# 22
03-27-2013, 03:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Ren, I meant in conjunction with... as in somebody getting hit by DOFF'd BPs and Bio-SS/SNB.

Somebody gets hit by X1 number of BPs.
They then get hit by SNB.
They get hit by X2 additional number of BPs.
They then get hit by Bio-SS.
They finally get hit by X3 additional number of BPs.

Does the system correctly handle the SNB and Bio-SS debuffs dropping off?
I think it should? Last time Sax hit me with his combo, the UI cooldown timer correctly updated when SNB/SS effects wore off.

But I'll hold off on further speculation until we see how Bort's fix works out. Thanks for looking in to it, Bort!
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,158
# 23
03-27-2013, 08:54 PM
R.I.P., IKS 7 Minute CDs. A hilarious moment in which boarding parties were actually fearsome.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 24
03-27-2013, 09:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doffingcomrade View Post
R.I.P., IKS 7 Minute CDs. A hilarious moment in which boarding parties were actually fearsome.

Good rule of thumb.

If it takes multiple powers used in sequence to create an effect that is clearly ridiculous, it's most likely not only a bug but an exploit.

Just like the bug that must not be named, or the Romulan Ground boff fiasco.

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 197
# 25
03-27-2013, 10:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
I want to thank everyone that sent us steps to attempt to reproduce this effect. Thanks to your assistance, we were able to track down one of the strangest power interactions I've yet seen since coming to work on STO.

And we just checked in a fix for it.

Boarding parties are still capable, on their own, of putting one or more category of power into cooldown for upwards of 45sec or so. But the interaction of this debuff, coupled with abilities like Subnucleonic Beam and the Bio-SS Doff, will no longer send the cooldown debuff's magnitudes hurdling off into the stratosphere. The effects of each will be applied, and stack in an additive manner, instead of multiplying one another.
Bort, I'm kinda confused by your post. Any chance you could enlighten me?

AFAIK, SNB and the like have always been "multiplicative" effects on cooldowns as shown in the UI. They effectively reduce the rate at which real-time translates into recharge-time for the CD timers, like I laid out in my previous post; the UI calculates the amount of time it would take for the ability to recharge at the current CD recharge rate, which results in a new CD that's a multiple of the old, pre-SNB CD.

From what you've said, I can see two ways that you've addressed this. One is to update the UI to reflect the actual time it would take for the ability to recharge, taking into account when CD-recharge-reduction debuffs wear off. Thus, SNB wouldn't "multiply" the entire CD, including what BP added; it would instead "add" some number of seconds to what the UI displays. This would be purely a UI update, and would not actually affect the time it took for the ability to recharge.

Example: If an ability is 15s away from recharge, and SS doff's affect is applied with 10s duration, then the UI calculates that the 30s it would take for the SNB to wear off would only translate to 5s reduction on the timer. After the SS doff's effect wears off (10s real time), the CD timer would still have 10s left; thus, the UI updates the display to show 20s, the actual time it would take for the ability to recharge assuming debuffs wear off as normal.

BP-added time is treated like normal CD time, so the UI would also 'add' up to 5s onto the displayed cooldown all abilities, including those affected by BP, when the SS doff's effect hits.


The other way that I could think of, given your comments, is to treat BP-added time as part of a separate timer that's not affected by SNB or related effects. This would actually change how BP interacts with SNB; the "time" added by BP wouldn't be "multiplied" by SNB at all.

Example: Suppose I have an ability that's ready to use. BP's effect kicks in and bumps it up to 15s recharge time. I get hit with SNB; BP's extra time isn't affected by SNB, and the displayed CD remains at 15s.

Compare this to an ability that was used and had 15s on its CD timer. Suppose BP kicks in again and adds 15s. If I get hit with an SS doff, the effect applies only to the 15s that was originally on the cooldown timer; the UI shows 2 * 15s + 15s = 45s instead of 2 * (15s + 15s) = 60s.


I don't think the latter's what you mean, but I'm afraid I'm still confused by your post. If you could be so kind as to explain the mechanics of what's going on, I (and probably the rest of the PvP community) would be very grateful!

Last edited by renimalt; 03-27-2013 at 10:12 PM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 56
# 26
03-28-2013, 12:42 AM
I was fighting the same guy and it was ridiculous. Everything was on heavy CD, even my KCB had like 13s before fireing again. You just sat there and could do nothing. I used tac team after SNB was gone to no effect. Glad this major bug will be fixed.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,926
# 27
03-28-2013, 04:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by renimalt View Post
Bort, I'm kinda confused by your post. Any chance you could enlighten me?

AFAIK, SNB and the like have always been "multiplicative" effects on cooldowns as shown in the UI. They effectively reduce the rate at which real-time translates into recharge-time for the CD timers, like I laid out in my previous post; the UI calculates the amount of time it would take for the ability to recharge at the current CD recharge rate, which results in a new CD that's a multiple of the old, pre-SNB CD.

From what you've said, I can see two ways that you've addressed this. One is to update the UI to reflect the actual time it would take for the ability to recharge, taking into account when CD-recharge-reduction debuffs wear off. Thus, SNB wouldn't "multiply" the entire CD, including what BP added; it would instead "add" some number of seconds to what the UI displays. This would be purely a UI update, and would not actually affect the time it took for the ability to recharge.

Example: If an ability is 15s away from recharge, and SS doff's affect is applied with 10s duration, then the UI calculates that the 30s it would take for the SNB to wear off would only translate to 5s reduction on the timer. After the SS doff's effect wears off (10s real time), the CD timer would still have 10s left; thus, the UI updates the display to show 20s, the actual time it would take for the ability to recharge assuming debuffs wear off as normal.

BP-added time is treated like normal CD time, so the UI would also 'add' up to 5s onto the displayed cooldown all abilities, including those affected by BP, when the SS doff's effect hits.


The other way that I could think of, given your comments, is to treat BP-added time as part of a separate timer that's not affected by SNB or related effects. This would actually change how BP interacts with SNB; the "time" added by BP wouldn't be "multiplied" by SNB at all.

Example: Suppose I have an ability that's ready to use. BP's effect kicks in and bumps it up to 15s recharge time. I get hit with SNB; BP's extra time isn't affected by SNB, and the displayed CD remains at 15s.

Compare this to an ability that was used and had 15s on its CD timer. Suppose BP kicks in again and adds 15s. If I get hit with an SS doff, the effect applies only to the 15s that was originally on the cooldown timer; the UI shows 2 * 15s + 15s = 45s instead of 2 * (15s + 15s) = 60s.


I don't think the latter's what you mean, but I'm afraid I'm still confused by your post. If you could be so kind as to explain the mechanics of what's going on, I (and probably the rest of the PvP community) would be very grateful!
I would expect it to work in a way that each ability applies their cooldown manipulation based on the unmodified cooldown time - instead of looking at the MODIFIED cooldown (in other words, the one that you get by applying the previous powers) it looks at the UNMODIFIED one (the cooldown as it was before the abilities were applied).

In other words-- *reads post more carefully* Okay, I think you may have done it right in the latter example, but it's a bit hard for me to keep track of. Even more so since I don't know exactly what each of these things does.

But basically, the effects are each calculated based on the original cooldown, and the UI displays the sum. If one of the effects expires, its contribution to the displayed cooldown is reduced - but, as you said above, the cooldown itself remains unchanged. How the system appears to work so far is that the calculation is multiplicative, not additive - it's applied based on the modified cooldown. And it seems to ignore the fact that some of the effects may have expired.
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Oh, lovely, I can't even requote the Douglas Adams quote I used to have here I WANT IT BACK!!!!
Dalo Lorn
DaloLorn, StarCraft 2 Roleplayer and proud of it.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by renimalt View Post
Not a hack. That's how BP actually works with multiple doffs. If more than three shuttles land (note that the BP doff-spawned shuttles stack up on each other in flight and land at the same time), they can all proc the CD-increase effect. Whereas BP without doffs would set you back maybe 6-7s per ability before you could get a TT up, and that's if all three shuttles landed, BP with doffs can easily push you to 1 or 2 minutes per ability, and that's assuming maybe only 4 or 5 land out of the possible 9 that can spawn.

Also note that the CD of your abilities aren't reset upon respawn. I think this is the same mechanism by which abilities on CD remain on CD even through respawn; BP doesn't just slow down the CD recharge rate, it literally adds seconds onto the clock, and these seconds can't be wiped away by most effects.

There have been people complaining about it on the forums. It's generally considered as hugely OP but highly situational; as someone else put it, one of the most critical-success or critical-failure powers out there.

This is true, One you have a 5 sec immunity after hitting tt, two you have hard counters like shockwave other mines or general weapons fire, and three you still us tt ,st,et.... The process of actually landing a bp on a target these days take a dedicated build and is very valuable to alpha strike if the escort or in this cause cruise's pilot is commandant.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 53
# 29 Odd!
03-28-2013, 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
Good rule of thumb.

If it takes multiple powers used in sequence to create an effect that is clearly ridiculous, it's most likely not only a bug but an exploit.

Just like the bug that must not be named, or the Romulan Ground boff fiasco.

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=560901

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkfader1988 View Post
Well do you think it was effective against us? You used it in the last (or second last) match we had at least on me.

It was too easily cleared with Tacteams once I noticed it. Honest answer.
MT - Sad Pandas
Last edited by darkfader1988; 02-20-2013 at 03:47 PM.

Last edited by warlordsob; 03-28-2013 at 08:56 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 677
# 30
03-28-2013, 08:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Bug. Not WAD.

As for why exactly it's happening, I can't say that I immediately know by just looking at the symptoms.

It's on our radar to review and find a fix for. Until then, beware of Boarding Parties. (Honestly never thought I'd say that...)
Sorry if its totally off-topic, any word on the Subterfuge Boffs and B'rel cloak being fixed?
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