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Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 336
# 381
03-29-2013, 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by edalgo View Post
There should be a beam Boff ability that rapid fires on 1 target. FAW scatters your attack, BO only fires from 1 array and drains your power so your next volley does as much damage as throwing popcorn at your screen. If there was say a Beam spread on target boff then all your beams would cycle(similar to a FAW but maybe more volleys) but on a single target.
That's called Fire At Will. Like it or leave it, but I'm not inclined to make beam abilities work like cannon ones.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,462
# 382
03-29-2013, 03:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by edalgo View Post
There should be a beam Boff ability that rapid fires on 1 target.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eraserfish View Post
That's called Fire At Will.

No, it isn't. The only time Fire At Will is a single-target damage boost is when there are 1 or 2 targets within firing arcs. Use FAW in a pitched battle and you might as well rename your ship the USS Rave Party.

Allowing all beams to fire Overload in a single salvo gives beams a tremendous single target striking power (like Rapid Fire), without actually being mechanically identical to Rapid Fire (higher front loaded damage, at the cost of weapon energy being drained after)
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,119
# 383
03-29-2013, 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
No, it isn't. The only time Fire At Will is a single-target damage boost is when there are 1 or 2 targets within firing arcs. Use FAW in a pitched battle and you might as well rename your ship the USS Rave Party.
That gave me a great idea for a name for a ship with a rainbow beams build.
The Emperor

Do not presume to have the capability to understand me for you see, I simply am.
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 336
# 384
03-29-2013, 03:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
No, it isn't. The only time Fire At Will is a single-target damage boost is when there are 1 or 2 targets within firing arcs. Use FAW in a pitched battle and you might as well rename your ship the USS Rave Party.

Allowing all beams to fire Overload in a single salvo gives beams a tremendous single target striking power (like Rapid Fire), without actually being mechanically identical to Rapid Fire (higher front loaded damage, at the cost of weapon energy being drained after)
Fits the definition, though. I don't like the idea of making beams abilities work like cannons.

As for allowing all beams to fire in overload mode... now there might be an idea in that. It would certainly give purpose to carrying more than one beam. It is rather perverse that Beam Overload does a lot more for escorts carrying one beam bank.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 179
# 385
03-29-2013, 06:15 PM
I said I was going to do some testing in regards to overcapping weapon power and power drain.

I used Common Mk X Phaser Beam Arrays and four Common Mk X Phaser Relay Consoles. Each test was at Starbase 234. I only parsed when I was able to meet the critieria of being at 2km of Starbase 234 and have 3 minutes on the countdown timer. With the exception of 125, the weapon power listed is when overcapped. I used Tac Team I and no other tactical powers. This was also done without Nadion Inversion. When I retested with Nadion Inversion, I saw a 20% increase in the average damage per beam.

You will notice that the damage per beam is not linear in scaling with weapon power, sorry but I cannot control when and how often I was critting.

Also when I was conducting these tests, the weapon power did not drop below 40 (at 125 weapon power).

When equipped and in system space, the Mk X Phaser Beam Array showed (in tooltip) 1,000.4 damage and a DPS of 800.3.

6 Beams - Weapon Power: 160 413.78
6 Beams - Weapon Power: 155 - Average Damage Per Beam: 384.35
6 Beams - Weapon Power: 150 - Average Damage Per Beam: 369.52
6 Beams - Weapon Power: 145 - Average Damage Per Beam: 372.58
6 Beams - Weapon Power: 140 - Average Damage Per Beam: 367.56
6 Beams - Weapon Power: 135 - Average Damage Per Beam: 365.04
6 Beams - Weapon Power: 130 - Average Damage Per Beam: 331.13
6 Beams - Weapon Power: 125 - Average Damage Per Beam: 343.99
Average Damage per Beam from all 6 Beam Tests: 368.49
Expected Average Damage per Beam (from Drain Mechanic Post): 555.25

7 Beams - Weapon Power: 160 - Average Damage Per Beam: 367.27
7 Beams - Weapon Power: 155 - Average Damage Per Beam: 345.3
7 Beams - Weapon Power: 150 - Average Damage Per Beam: 370.26
7 Beams - Weapon Power: 145 - Average Damage Per Beam: 337.54
7 Beams - Weapon Power: 140 - Average Damage Per Beam: 362.0
7 Beams - Weapon Power: 135 - Average Damage Per Beam: 320.11
7 Beams - Weapon Power: 130 - Average Damage Per Beam: 312.36
7 Beams - Weapon Power: 125 - Average Damage Per Beam: 302.5
Average Damage per Beam from all 7 Beam Tests: 339.68
Expected Average Damage per Beam (from Drain Mechanic Post): 457.21

8 Beams - Weapon Power: 160 - Average Damage Per Beam: 324.95
8 Beams - Weapon Power: 155 - Average Damage Per Beam: 318.1
8 Beams - Weapon Power: 150 - Average Damage Per Beam: 320.02
8 Beams - Weapon Power: 145 - Average Damage Per Beam: 322.93
8 Beams - Weapon Power: 140 - Average Damage Per Beam: 295.89
8 Beams - Weapon Power: 135 - Average Damage Per Beam: 296.17
8 Beams - Weapon Power: 130 - Average Damage Per Beam: 283.38
8 Beams - Weapon Power: 125 - Average Damage Per Beam: 257.09
Average Damage per Beam from all 8 Beam Tests: 302.32
Expected Average Damage per Beam (from Drain Mechanic Post): 360.42



In an earlier post the weapon drain mechanics for beams was explained. Using that method, the average damage per beam was still below the expected results.

While I cannot say with 100% certainty that overcapping weapons power helps fight the power drain (only the Devs who know the actual method the power drain is calculated know for sure); it does appear to help the average damage per beam somewhat. Going by my results, it seems that overcapping to 140-145 appears to be the limit.

Take from this what you will.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,886
# 386
03-29-2013, 07:06 PM
I found that equipping 2 Mk XI Purple flow regulators when overcapping could boost beam damage by a fair margin...

(Starting power 123, 6 beams arrays, 5 cycles under each set of conditions)

Base (no EPS consoles, no buffs) 1668
EPtW1 (No consoles) 1824
EPtW1 (1 console) 1943
EPtW1 (2 consoles) 2185
EPS (No consoles) 1979
EPS (1 console) 2233
EPS (2 consoles) 2419
EPS+EPtW1 (No consoles) 2190
EPS+EPtW (1 console) 2458
EPS+EPtW (2 consoles) 2892

Last edited by adamkafei; 03-29-2013 at 07:10 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 654
# 387
03-29-2013, 07:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
You know, this is probably one of the few posts you have made that I actually mostly agree with. Beams are weak. I won't dispute that. They have a rather large firing arc though, so that makes them useful in some situations.

However I will disagree with this part:



I can outheal the majority of an alpha strike from a bug in my Odyssey. Anything I can't outheal straight up I can usually pick up with HoTs. You are correct, cannon and BA damage have a massive disparity, almost to the point of stupidity, but you vastly underestimate or devalue the ability of cruisers to heal not only themselves but others.

Word of advice:
If you're having trouble surviving against an escort, use the following ability combo: EPtS3, TT1, HE2, TSS1, Aux2SIF3, as appropriate. If you keep cycling those abilities and time them properly, the escort will never pop you. Also you have MW3 as your "oh ****" button, and combined with a RSP2, you can EASILY outlast any escort, at least long enough that it will get bored/one of your teammates will come and kill it.
and with a regent, a BO2 and HTY3 can really ruin an escort's day if you can nail him with a tractor. tractor mines and the grappler will slow him long enough that BO2 pops his shield and HYT3 his hull. catch him with tractors and a broadside also does wonders on his shields
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 654
# 388
03-29-2013, 07:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller View Post
The problem is actually with the cannons not with the beams.

Cannons have an absurd damage and rate of fire and this is what makes the beams look so decrepit.

Cannons need to be changed to:


Single cannon
Single Heavy Cannon*
Dual Cannon

*Rather than it being dual heavy cannon.

By removing the very high damage dual heavy cannon and 'trimming it' to a single heavy cannon the cannon ships in the game fall in line with the beam weaponry.

How? Simple. The cannon's primary advantage is that it has a rapid refire & fire rate plus the boff abilities buff ALL cannons not just one (unlike beams) when firing on a single target.

The dual heavy cannon receives an insane damage boost and rate of fire bonus from boff abilities and this is why most people dont bother with single cannons and rarely use dual cannons. The dual heavy is the one that has the massive damage output.

A single heavy cannon would have the same refire rate the dual heavy has now but only have minimally better damage output than the dual cannons .The catch: the heavy cannon has twice the secondary effect the non-heavy cannons have. Not chance to proc but the effect itself.
or you could just make the escort the glass cannon it should be. the speed defense bonus is insanely lopsided. if you look at DS9 as the example, Defiant has firepower going for it but the science and engineering capabilities are far far less than a cruisers (manpower has a LOT to do with it) to be more realistic, escorts should have ens only powers for eng and sci powers
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 179
# 389
03-29-2013, 08:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkafei View Post
I found that equipping 2 Mk XI Purple flow regulators when overcapping could boost beam damage by a fair margin...

(Starting power 123, 6 beams arrays, 5 cycles under each set of conditions)

Base (no EPS consoles, no buffs) 1668
EPtW1 (No consoles) 1824
EPtW1 (1 console) 1943
EPtW1 (2 consoles) 2185
EPS (No consoles) 1979
EPS (1 console) 2233
EPS (2 consoles) 2419
EPS+EPtW1 (No consoles) 2190
EPS+EPtW (1 console) 2458
EPS+EPtW (2 consoles) 2892
I haven't tested flow regulators, as they are reputed to only help with transfering from one power setting to another and with power recovery from Beam Overload. At some point I will look into it.

The numbers you listed. Where are they from (e.g. tooltip, floating numbers)? I am not being snarky. When I ran my tests with ACT, I used the average damage, as it is per beam array. From my tests the minimum hit was 1 and the maximum hit was 1652. I find that the average damage to be a truer representation of performance.
Ensign
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 7
# 390
03-30-2013, 01:15 AM
I see this many have been brought up already but I put this up on another thread and thought it would fit better here:


Quote:
Originally Posted by magniacapra View Post
- Beam arrays need to drain way less energy than current, and have higher proc chances to make up for reduced hit chance. - Right now, cannons both do more damage than beams and proc more often. FAW and subsystem targeting is the only reason to run arrays at current.

- DEM needs a massive boost to bleed through damage, it should also become a beam weapon only effect. No real use for it besides the doff skill

- The amount human doffs reduce subsystem disable is too much.

- Did I mention that beam arrays suck?


I agree.

All weapons should have a chance to proc based on shots fired over time, so the slower RoF weapons have increased proc chances.

DEM needs looking at, currently its not much of a bonus compared to the investment.

Leadership trait needs diminishing returns, having all humans on your bridge crew is really OP. Also goes against the diversity Starfleet embraces.

Beam arrays do suck. Either their dmg is too low or there drain is too high (kinda the same thing)

How about this.
Beam Overload:
"Greatly increases damage on ALL beam arrays by X% for their next firing cycle."
30 sec CD (maxed), 15 Sec Shared CD with FAW and subtarget powers.
Lasts 10-15 seconds or until beam has finished a firing cycle.
Remove the weapon power drain that occurs on the current ability. (why doesn't rapid fire drop weapon power after it's used?)

I think this would be the single target broadside power beams lack.
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