Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 361
# 61
03-27-2013, 03:11 AM
thanks for that

the problem with them is not the hull repair they give

the problem is that the hull repair they give is not taken away even if you are at 0 crew

100% of hull regen for example on an escort without any crew is too much
it's not the ship or the build, it's the atitude
Rihannsu
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 542
# 62
03-27-2013, 03:28 AM
This is issue when we think of klingons, they have to pay 20m ec or make multiple alts to get any specie with leadership trait, it's clearly unfair and needs to be nerfed.
Say the word, it saves the world.
CUUCUUMBEER! "-With slight partigen with it."
Proud member or DPS-800 "-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 361
# 63
03-27-2013, 03:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by saxfire View Post
it's clearly unfair and needs to be nerfed
let's just hope s8 give us the fix we need
it's not the ship or the build, it's the atitude
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 64
03-29-2013, 11:32 PM
I hope all leadership haters are happy now. On tribble leadership boffs provide 1/10 (see one tenth) of the bonus granted by 2 piece borg. On top of that, SIF appears to have lesser effect on hull repair. No other crew related issues were solved like was foreseen.

It is safe to say that the effect of them is not noticeable and they are back in the stone age where they rested for past few years.

GJ
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,539
# 65
03-29-2013, 11:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
I hope all leadership haters are happy now. On tribble leadership boffs provide 1/10 (see one tenth) of the bonus granted by 2 piece borg. On top of that, SIF appears to have lesser effect on hull repair. No other crew related issues were solved like was foreseen.

It is safe to say that the effect of them is not noticeable and they are back in the stone age where they rested for past few years.

GJ
Are you sure that SIF generators have a smaller effect on hull repair rate when no humans are equipped? I'm asking because the hull repair bonus granted by leadership is modified by skill in "Starship Hull Repair". There might be no change to SIF generators at all, just humans.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 66
03-29-2013, 11:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by frtoaster View Post
Are you sure that SIF generators have a smaller effect on hull repair rate when no humans are equipped? I'm asking because the hull repair bonus granted by leadership is modified by skill in "Starship Hull Repair". There might be no change to SIF generators at all, just humans.
Considering my steamrunner is build on stacking SIF (not just generators) for max hull regen, I'm pretty sure that the effect on tribble is smaller than on holodeck.

But of course, that's just subjective feel. I generally do not trust tooltips, so I'm just watching my HPS as borgs in kerrat eat through my hull with plasma.

Tribble is down today, so I cannot continue with my reasearch from yesterday tho...

Last edited by dalnar83; 03-30-2013 at 12:00 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,539
# 67
03-30-2013, 12:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
Considering my steamrunner is build on stacking SIF (not just generators) for max hull regen, I'm pretty sure that the effect on tribble is smaller than on holodeck.

But of course, that's just subjective feel. I generally do not trust tooltips, so I'm just watching my HPS as borgs in kerrat eat through my hull with plasma.
I'm asking if you have tested the difference on Tribble and Holodeck with no humans equipped. My suspicion is that no change has been made to the skill "Starship Hull Repair" or to SIF generators. Because the hull repair bonus granted by leadership has been reduced, the benefit they gain from "Starship Hull Repair" is correspondingly reduced. However, the effect of "Starship Hull Repair" without humans may remain unchanged.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 68
03-30-2013, 12:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by frtoaster View Post
I'm asking if you have tested the difference on Tribble and Holodeck with no humans equipped. My suspicion is that no change has been made to the skill "Starship Hull Repair" or to SIF generators. Because the hull repair bonus granted by leadership has been reduced, the benefit they gain from "Starship Hull Repair" is correspondingly reduced. However, the effect of "Starship Hull Repair" without humans may remain unchanged.
Well, hard to test the actual numbers. But without these boffs, even with +200 in SIF i didn't notice anything great about my passive regen. Actually +100 vs +200 felt like being same. But I had to log off and wanted to continue today....tribble down zzzZZzz.

Also, my captain is human, so I always have one leadership bonus on me thus it's hard for me to get "clean" results. I have always tested it maxed, because without dedicated stuff I would not bother with natural regen at all.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,539
# 69
03-30-2013, 12:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
Well, hard to test the actual numbers. But without these boffs, even with +200 in SIF i didn't notice anything great about my passive regen. Actually +100 vs +200 felt like being same. But I had to log off and wanted to continue today....tribble down zzzZZzz.

Also, my captain is human, so I always have one leadership bonus on me thus it's hard for me to get "clean" results. I have always tested it maxed, because without dedicated stuff I would not bother with natural regen at all.
Most likely, what you are observing is that hull repair rate from normal sources is greatly diminished by crew and is also multiplied by 1/6 when you enter red alert. The leadership trait was so strong before because it was unaffected by these penalties. Now, that the leadership bonus has been reduced, you are seeing these penalties dominate.

Last edited by frtoaster; 03-30-2013 at 12:17 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 70
03-30-2013, 02:08 AM
Ok so I did some more testing comparing holodeck to tribble with some number. I have some rather specialized and I would says unique steamrunner build., that focuses on natural healing.


Holodeck

Human captain (1x leadership), No BOFFs, NO BORG set, 99 SIF base

143,3% / 43,8%

+ 2 piece borg

184,3% / 79,8%

+ SIF toys for a total of 194 SIF

238,3% / 85,3%

+ All human crew

380% / 232,9% (60 SIF ~ 36% outside combat, 13,2% in-combat)


Tribble

Human captain (1x leadership), No BOFFs, NO BORG set, 109 SIF base (got +10 from techie trait i could add)

130,4% / 25,9%

+ 2 piece borg

171,4% / 61,9%

+ SIF toys for a total of 204 SIF

222,4% / 70,4%

+ All human crew

222,4% / 70,4% (60 SIF ~ 36% outside combat, 6% in-combat)

ZzZzzZzz... Leadership trait is not working on tribble. Positive is, I was wrong about the SIF gens. They work much like before. The initial values are lower, so perhaps even the human captain trait is not working (again).

As a side note, I found the exact same bug i bug reported year ago regarding DEM + Point Defence Phaser. It used to dmg myself. Well right now on tribble, if you activate the PDP and it has no targets around, it procs the new cripling fire proc from trait on yourself. Dear god. What a lousy job.

Last edited by dalnar83; 03-30-2013 at 02:12 AM.
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