Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,836
# 281
03-30-2013, 08:55 AM
It's not often that I can name a favorite line in an LC, especially one as long as that one, but the line that jumps out at me in retrospect is:

"Miss Zain, you may now press the button that makes everyone die."

Me likey.

(A close second was Ssharki's response - "I want that button!")
-------------------------------------------
I'm old enough not to care too much about what you think of me --
But I'm young enough to remember the future, the way things ought to be...

- Rush, "Cut To the Chase", Counterparts
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,447
# 282
03-30-2013, 09:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
Wow...that really drives home the horror he endured.

I hope Master Sovak, underneath his Vulcan composure, is someone with a lot of compassion, given that he specializes in those who have suffered traumas. Marcus will definitely need an approach that is both instructive and compassionate and respectful.
I hope it explains what made him the way he was... Master Sovak would certainly have helped Marcus through some very challenging times, but I think the results of his tutelage speak for themselves...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
I'm surprised the Kanes weren't harder on Alix for her disquieting behavior, though, and then told Marcus it was normal or at least acceptable...
I think the best way to describe Alix, is that she's essentially an Augment, without the 'optional extras' of heightened intelligence, coordination or strength, and would be somewhere on the Aspergers/autism spectrum, where her behavior is the acknowledged result of an untreatable condition, rather than simply 'bad behavior'. Not quite as disturbed or intense as Jack or Lauren, but certainly enough that friends and family would know that she 'had issues', and any outbursts or strange behaviour had to be accommodated as the symptoms of an unwell mind, rather than pure deviancy. At that point, her behavior would not have gone beyond sneaking into Marcus' bed and spending as much time with him as possible. Her parents would have talked to her about her behavior, but equally, have known that without the reason for her behavior, she would not have been alive in the first place, so simply cared for her as they would any child with special needs
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,346
# 283
03-30-2013, 03:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonsills View Post
It's not often that I can name a favorite line in an LC, especially one as long as that one, but the line that jumps out at me in retrospect is:

"Miss Zain, you may now press the button that makes everyone die."

Me likey.

(A close second was Ssharki's response - "I want that button!")
I start laughing like a maniac every time I press this button


"I won't try to hide behind the Law if what I stand for is what's Right."

The Masterverse Timeline / Ten Forward Fanfics
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 146
# 284
03-30-2013, 07:59 PM
sander233 - your story about the pirate was very thought provoking. I am a few days behind everyone else in reading it, so I don't think I have anything new to add to the discussion. But I wanted to let you know that I enjoyed it.

cmdrscarlet
- your Ten Forward entry was also good. You always do a good job of capturing enough detail in the short stories to make them worthwhile.

I have written one more entry, this time based on LC 21, "Saying Hello." I've basically turned my ship into a soap opera, so it was only fitting that I show you the first interaction between one of the couples (Amanda Carpenter and Miguel Jarvis).
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,203
# 285
03-31-2013, 12:17 AM
Much to my surprise, a second entry slipped out. "Who Sings the Song of Hosts" is a response to LC #3, "My Haven."

Even more of a surprise was that Alyosha decided to give me a look into his promotion to captain, and even a glimpse of the man he served under as first officer.

The last part is definitely inspired by a real song...I definitely encourage you to listen to get an idea of what I was driving at with this piece. In fact, I invite you to watch the video, too, because the musician's reactions provide a great visual translation of what's going on in the story, despite the fact that the actual visuals would not be so relatable.

The Mad Violinist takes on the Bassnectar remix of Ellie Goulding's "Lights"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_5j0uzlYfo

Oh...and Captain Teeglar's species is the same one Keenser belongs to, from Star Trek XI. The name "Roylan" didn't come from the movie, but has been seen in some sources, so I went ahead and used it anyway.


Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusdkane View Post
I think the best way to describe Alix, is that she's essentially an Augment, without the 'optional extras' of heightened intelligence, coordination or strength, and would be somewhere on the Aspergers/autism spectrum, where her behavior is the acknowledged result of an untreatable condition, rather than simply 'bad behavior'. Not quite as disturbed or intense as Jack or Lauren, but certainly enough that friends and family would know that she 'had issues', and any outbursts or strange behaviour had to be accommodated as the symptoms of an unwell mind, rather than pure deviancy. At that point, her behavior would not have gone beyond sneaking into Marcus' bed and spending as much time with him as possible. Her parents would have talked to her about her behavior, but equally, have known that without the reason for her behavior, she would not have been alive in the first place, so simply cared for her as they would any child with special needs
I appreciate the comparison you're trying to draw, and IRL I agree that those with special needs should be treated with compassion.

Of course, IRL we do not have the ability to deliberately manipulate the genome to the extreme extent seen in Star Trek. I wonder if her parents had any idea of the kinds of side effects that could result from the Adigeons' treatments? There definitely seem to be a lot of ethical considerations surrounding it, especially since I didn't see anywhere where the physician warned her of possible crippling side effects--only held out a promise of a cure.

Then again, given what we know they did in canon, such a modus operandi would not surprise me at all, and might well have been your exact intention.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM me for more. :-)


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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,447
# 286
03-31-2013, 06:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
Much to my surprise, a second entry slipped out. "Who Sings the Song of Hosts" is a response to LC #3, "My Haven."

Even more of a surprise was that Alyosha decided to give me a look into his promotion to captain, and even a glimpse of the man he served under as first officer.

The last part is definitely inspired by a real song...I definitely encourage you to listen to get an idea of what I was driving at with this piece. In fact, I invite you to watch the video, too, because the musician's reactions provide a great visual translation of what's going on in the story, despite the fact that the actual visuals would not be so relatable.

The Mad Violinist takes on the Bassnectar remix of Ellie Goulding's "Lights"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_5j0uzlYfo

Oh...and Captain Teeglar's species is the same one Keenser belongs to, from Star Trek XI. The name "Roylan" didn't come from the movie, but has been seen in some sources, so I went ahead and used it anyway.
That was a really nice entry, I hope Captain Keenser will appear in the future Linking the track certainly gives a good example of how Alyosha's natural acoustics could sound And yes, it is nice when a character reveals something about themselves which we as their author did not already know

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
I appreciate the comparison you're trying to draw, and IRL I agree that those with special needs should be treated with compassion.
I really wanted to try and reinforce that the less socially-acceptable aspects of her behavior were down to a condition she could not control, rather than simply intentional behavior.

(Historically speaking, 'twincest' occurs quite frequently in literature, even in Game of Thrones, and I needed Marcus to have a 'skeleton in his closet' of that magnitude to try and balance against the incredibility of his immortality. One legend, I forget which nation it is from, is that lovers who commit dual suicide are reincarnated as twins in their next lives...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
I wonder if her parents had any idea of the kinds of side effects that could result from the Adigeons' treatments?
As a scientist, Rebecca would have known the risks associated with the accelerated critical neural pathway formation therapy which leads to Augments, which was why she was so vehement that no such enhancements be made, so that any potential side-effects be minimized.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
There definitely seem to be a lot of ethical considerations surrounding it, especially since I didn't see anywhere where the physician warned her of possible crippling side effects--only held out a promise of a cure.
To be fair, MacLeod was only her attendant Starfleet physician, not a specialist genetic engineer (although he did recognize the Lazarus Gene as being present in the twins) he may not have thought that the proposed procedure would have carried any of the risks associated with the usual Augment procedures, as none of the usual procedures were to be carried out. If the likes of Jack and Lauren are the likely result of 'the full works', it might have been considered an acceptable risk that Alix may have only experienced minor side-effects, due to the relatively 'minimal' work being done to the genetic structure, and that being considered preferable to a miscarriage. Sure, in terms of the organism, it was a total re-writing, but only re-writing to baseline norm, not enhancing anything beyond the norm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
Then again, given what we know they did in canon, such a modus operandi would not surprise me at all, and might well have been your exact intention.
Well... It was myintention that Alix's behavior be the result of a forced genetic re-structuring, as I wanted her to be a slightly more sympathetic character than simply viewed as a deliberately deviant individual, but it would not have been the Adigeon's (or MacLeod's) intention that she suffer any side-effects, as they were not performing any 'enhancement' surgery... Genetic engineering is held in two opposing views in Trek canon. While it is considered illegal, and any genetically enhanced individuals are forbidden from practicing medicine or serving in Starfleet, the loophole to that is that genetic engineering is permitted to correct any genetic defects. In this instance, Alix's defects were the result of potentially illegal research on the part of the Adigeons (or perhaps that was why thalaron research was banned in the Federation) so within the remit to be legally corrected. Of course, her resultant psych profile would have excluded her from Starfleet service regardless of her genetic status... To most people, she would have been nice as pie, and passably 'normal', except for the occasional off-color or brutally honest comment which a 'regular person' would have the social grace to know not to make. She would only have been outright nasty to any female she considered as being too close to Marcus, and thus represent a potential usurping of his affections, but even then, she would not have been dangerous like Jack was. She wouldn't have been institutionalized as Jack and Lauren had to be (interestingly, I've just remembered that they were accompanied by a Starfleet, not a civilian therapist... ) but would have been part of the board of directors of their father's engineering company.

Last edited by marcusdkane; 03-31-2013 at 06:20 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,203
# 287
03-31-2013, 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusdkane View Post
That was a really nice entry, I hope Captain Keenser will appear in the future
While he isn't Keenser, he's of the same species, and I admit that his serious demeanor was inspired by Keenser's very deadpan, stoic handling of nuScotty's insanity. Teeglar is a serious man and it was very important to him that his crew get that point. He's not a total prig, but he does not care for being underestimated or dismissed by his subordinates. So in addition to his record, discussion with his superiors, and interviews with Alyosha himself, one of Teeglar's other reasons for choosing Alyosha was realizing that Alyosha can understand better than most why Teeglar expects certain things of him.

Quote:
Linking the track certainly gives a good example of how Alyosha's natural acoustics could sound
At first the sound was much more similar to...well...a Nazgul, or the scream of a bird of prey. Something that would probably result in calls to security wanting to know who just murdered, or what fell beast has invaded the ship.

But he's so steeped in Earth music that it doesn't take long for the Earth instruments to start coming out. He loves stringed instruments--though I think sometimes he also enjoys creating instruments with very specific, precise tones like the piano, that must be hit dead-on rather than sliding from note to note the way a stringed instrument does.

Quote:
And yes, it is nice when a character reveals something about themselves which we as their author did not already know
Definitely. I don't know how to explain this, but it just came to me as an image, with Teeglar and Alyosha walking side by side, and even just their body language told me everything I needed to know.

Quote:
(Historically speaking, 'twincest' occurs quite frequently in literature, even in Game of Thrones, and I needed Marcus to have a 'skeleton in his closet' of that magnitude to try and balance against the incredibility of his immortality. One legend, I forget which nation it is from, is that lovers who commit dual suicide are reincarnated as twins in their next lives...)
Yikes! I wonder if that's a Japanese legend? Maybe someone here knows...

Quote:
As a scientist, Rebecca would have known the risks associated with the accelerated critical neural pathway formation therapy which leads to Augments, which was why she was so vehement that no such enhancements be made, so that any potential side-effects be minimized.
I see...I didn't realize that. There are many kinds of scientists. Alyosha wouldn't have known much about it himself, for instance--not as a physicist with a specialty in temporal mechanics.

Quote:
To be fair, MacLeod was only her attendant Starfleet physician, not a specialist genetic engineer (although he did recognize the Lazarus Gene as being present in the twins)
LOL, with a name like MacLeod I figured he recognized it.

Quote:
he may not have thought that the proposed procedure would have carried any of the risks associated with the usual Augment procedures, as none of the usual procedures were to be carried out. If the likes of Jack and Lauren are the likely result of 'the full works', it might have been considered an acceptable risk that Alix may have only experienced minor side-effects, due to the relatively 'minimal' work being done to the genetic structure, and that being considered preferable to a miscarriage. Sure, in terms of the organism, it was a total re-writing, but only re-writing to baseline norm, not enhancing anything beyond the norm.
Maybe. Still, my experience with having been operated on was one where the doctors had to discuss eeeeeeeevery risk, however slight. MacLeod might not have known better--but that Adigeon physician sure should have. I guess, though, that the Adigeons do not have an equivalent of the Hippocratic Oath. (Or they wouldn't have done the things they did to people, repeatedly and without regard to the risks.)

Quote:
Well... It was myintention that Alix's behavior be the result of a forced genetic re-structuring, as I wanted her to be a slightly more sympathetic character than simply viewed as a deliberately deviant individual, but it would not have been the Adigeon's (or MacLeod's) intention that she suffer any side-effects, as they were not performing any 'enhancement' surgery...
I understand what you mean about why the character was enhanced in the first place. And I would imagine if MacLeod had known better, he would've said something about the risks.

But I just had this feeling that the Adigeons' medical techniques are illegal for a reason, and that they might have a fundamentally different view of the medical profession. One that does not have the kinds of ethics ours does and therefore would not see it as a "big deal" to provide full disclosure. Repeatedly turning out "mistakes" like Patrick, Laura, and Jack (who are clearly not all the same age...I think Patrick's case would've been known before the operations on Laura and Jack) is something that on Earth would've stopped the research cold. (And did, when Khan was created.) But it clearly didn't bother the Adigeons, or they would've stopped.

Quote:
In this instance, Alix's defects were the result of potentially illegal research on the part of the Adigeons (or perhaps that was why thalaron research was banned in the Federation) so within the remit to be legally corrected.
At least personally, it makes the most sense that this was what got thalaron research banned...the Adigeons being foolhardy enough to test it on a populated world. (Another example of the cavalier attitude above? Which is why to me it seems like it all fits together into a complete and logical picture.)
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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,447
# 288
03-31-2013, 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
While he isn't Keenser
Arrrgh, I just realized that I typed the wrong name, my sincere apologies, that was a written slip of the tongue

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
he's of the same species, and I admit that his serious demeanor was inspired by Keenser's very deadpan, stoic handling of nuScotty's insanity. Teeglar is a serious man and it was very important to him that his crew get that point. He's not a total prig, but he does not care for being underestimated or dismissed by his subordinates. So in addition to his record, discussion with his superiors, and interviews with Alyosha himself, one of Teeglar's other reasons for choosing Alyosha was realizing that Alyosha can understand better than most why Teeglar expects certain things of him.
I really liked Teeglar, one rather got the impression of him being ten feet tall, and the kind of Captain whom people automatically follow, so to contrast that to him being the same species as Keenser is an excellent juxtaposition, and would make for another fascinating character

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
At first the sound was much more similar to...well...a Nazgul, or the scream of a bird of prey. Something that would probably result in calls to security wanting to know who just murdered, or what fell beast has invaded the ship.
I must admit, as much as I love music, I actually couldn't listen to the entire track, as I found the violin physically uncomfortable (as much as I loved the more atmospheric qualities of the underlying track) so I think that's certainly a good confirmation that many people would find the Devidian language uncomfortable and unsettling to witness...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
But he's so steeped in Earth music that it doesn't take long for the Earth instruments to start coming out. He loves stringed instruments--though I think sometimes he also enjoys creating instruments with very specific, precise tones like the piano, that must be hit dead-on rather than sliding from note to note the way a stringed instrument does.
I can understand that, it must be an interesting ability to have, so it's easy to see how it could lead to such an interest in music ^_^

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
Definitely. I don't know how to explain this, but it just came to me as an image, with Teeglar and Alyosha walking side by side, and even just their body language told me everything I needed to know.
I know what you mean, I tend to get similar images when writing, ironically, especially when writing Cameron, a lot of who's communication would actually have come through bodylanguage and gesture, rather than vocalization (for the record, Pentaxians have the same kind of vocal range as the diva in the Fifth Element, and I imagine Alyosha would appreciate Pentaxian opera, which features tones both above and below the range of Human hearing)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
Yikes! I wonder if that's a Japanese legend? Maybe someone here knows...
It might be Japanese, I'm sure it's from the Asian region... I'll research and report back...
[Edit to add]
Just checked, and it is a Japanese myth...


Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
I see...I didn't realize that. There are many kinds of scientists. Alyosha wouldn't have known much about it himself, for instance--not as a physicist with a specialty in temporal mechanics.
Rebecca was something of a scientific jack of all trades like Spock, with a taste for gizmos and engineering thrown in. She would have read a lot of scientific publications to keep her knowledge base as broad as possible, and probably seen a few updates on SpaceBook of "Adigeon geneticists are manipulating YOUR children!!! Share if you are against this..."...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
LOL, with a name like MacLeod I figured he recognized it.
As a doctor, he would have been aware of the gene and the restrictions of informing carriers or their parents of its presence, and being a MacLeod, he had no doubt heard a few interesting family legends over the years

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
Maybe. Still, my experience with having been operated on was one where the doctors had to discuss eeeeeeeevery risk, however slight. MacLeod might not have known better--but that Adigeon physician sure should have. I guess, though, that the Adigeons do not have an equivalent of the Hippocratic Oath. (Or they wouldn't have done the things they did to people, repeatedly and without regard to the risks.)


But I just had this feeling that the Adigeons' medical techniques are illegal for a reason, and that they might have a fundamentally different view of the medical profession. One that does not have the kinds of ethics ours does and therefore would not see it as a "big deal" to provide full disclosure. Repeatedly turning out "mistakes" like Patrick, Laura, and Jack (who are clearly not all the same age...I think Patrick's case would've been known before the operations on Laura and Jack) is something that on Earth would've stopped the research cold. (And did, when Khan was created.) But it clearly didn't bother the Adigeons, or they would've stopped.


At least personally, it makes the most sense that this was what got thalaron research banned...the Adigeons being foolhardy enough to test it on a populated world. (Another example of the cavalier attitude above? Which is why to me it seems like it all fits together into a complete and logical picture.)
That was precisely my thoughts (although I had not actually considered the evidence of Patrick being much older than Lauren or Jack) that the Adigeons simply didn't care what they did with an attitude of "Well you paid us to do it...", combined with the attitude of some tattoo artists of "I did my job properly, it's not my fault you didn't heal it up properly...". That was why I figured that if any species would be foolhardy enough to mess with thalaron radiation, it would have been them... I think the Eden was probably there to assess what they were up to, much like the weapons inspectors in Iraq, rather than simply a 'friendly visit' to a Federation research facility... It just seems reasonable conjecture that they were extremely gifted scientists, but with very little of what others would consider moral scruples.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
I understand what you mean about why the character was enhanced in the first place. And I would imagine if MacLeod had known better, he would've said something about the risks.
This is the thing, it would have had to be a 'system wide' genetic re-writing, but equally, I didn't want her to actually be an Augment, as there was not only no need for her to be enhanced, but equally, given their standing in Starfleet circles, Paul and Rebecca would certainly not been the kind of people to engage in illegal activities, where I always got the impression that Bashir's father was a bit of a roguish chancer (although of course, the fact that they had him enhanced to overcome his considerable learning difficulties, does show a more sympathetic light to their actions) Yes, I think had MacLeod actually known enough about the subject to anticipate the risks, he would have said something, even if it was just to let Rebecca know the risk, and let her weigh that against losing the child, which to be fair, she would never have done... Rebecca was very much a Warrior Mum who would have done anything for her children's well-being.

Last edited by marcusdkane; 03-31-2013 at 02:31 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,447
# 289
03-31-2013, 12:41 PM
@ Superhombre777: That 's a really nice entry, it sets things up nicely
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,447
# 290
03-31-2013, 12:59 PM
@ Ambassadormolari:
Fantastic concept for the time delay to be who the image of Bogart was chosen, but what a fantastic portrayal of him
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