Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 354
# 31
04-02-2013, 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
The fact that STO's strike craft are as dumb as a sack of hammers does not in the least make carriers into floating drone factories.
I said nothing about unmanned craft. Even considering that, the only space requirement is that of pilots, which even yet would be considerable as part of the "hangar bay" space, since even at 0/X crew a starship can launch and operate small craft.

What, precisely, does the AI of STO strike craft have to do with my point?
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 32
04-02-2013, 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theodrim View Post
What, precisely, does the AI of STO strike craft have to do with my point?
You mean besides their inability to keep themselves alive regardless of what's going on around them?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 179
# 33
04-02-2013, 11:00 AM
The Atrox doesn't have more hangar capacity. Just as you said, the Atrox's flight pods equal a modern day carrier. Literally.

Unlike a modern day carrier, the Atrox cannot use it's 'flight decks' as impromptu storage to increase the amount of Fighters it can support. That drops it's flight compliment.

Unlike modern day fighters, Star Trek Fighters have a fixed size. They cannot fold up their wings/pylons etc. and are typically bulkier, seating 2 with room for several passengers. They're more akin to Helicopters than your typical jet fighter. That also drops it's flight compliment.

The Atrox only has a crew compliment of 3000. While Modern carriers have the same amount, they also have the Flight Crew which usually counts for another 2000 or so. The Atrox doesn't have that specialty crew, thus it cannot support the same amount of fighters. Another drop to the flight compliment.

So while ships (including fighter and shuttlecraft) have gotten larger, carrier operations haven't.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 34
04-02-2013, 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yargomesh View Post
The Atrox doesn't have more hangar capacity. Just as you said, the Atrox's flight pods equal a modern day carrier. Literally.

Unlike a modern day carrier, the Atrox cannot use it's 'flight decks' as impromptu storage to increase the amount of Fighters it can support. That drops it's flight compliment.
And why not? The flight pods very clearly have mag-con fields keeping them pressurized.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yargomesh View Post
Unlike modern day fighters, Star Trek Fighters have a fixed size. They cannot fold up their wings/pylons etc. and are typically bulkier, seating 2 with room for several passengers. They're more akin to Helicopters than your typical jet fighter. That also drops it's flight compliment.
Not by 90% it doesn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yargomesh View Post
The Atrox only has a crew compliment of 3000. While Modern carriers have the same amount, they also have the Flight Crew which usually counts for another 2000 or so. The Atrox doesn't have that specialty crew, thus it cannot support the same amount of fighters. Another drop to the flight compliment.
Firstly, STO crew numbers are next to meaningless.

Secondly, crew complement and ship capacity are not at all related. An Akira class ship comes with a crew of 500, yet it has the capacity to transport 4500 additional personnel if need be, while still functioning as an active strike carrier with upwards of 40 strike craft in it's fighter wing.

And it's also less than half the size of an Atrox.

You do the math from there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yargomesh View Post
So while ships (including fighter and shuttlecraft) have gotten larger, carrier operations haven't.

Never said they did get larger. I said they didn't shrink by 90%.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,803
# 35
04-02-2013, 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yargomesh View Post
The Atrox only has a crew compliment of 3000. While Modern carriers have the same amount, they also have the Flight Crew which usually counts for another 2000 or so. The Atrox doesn't have that specialty crew, thus it cannot support the same amount of fighters. Another drop to the flight compliment.
it doesn't need a specialty crew, because star trek has photonics, which are just as capable of piloting fighters as flesh-and-blood pilots
Quote:
[Combat (Self)] Your Kumari Phaser Wing Cannons - Overload deals 128698 (67705) Phaser Damage(Critical) to Borg Bird-of-Prey.
don't mess with the andorians
Quote:
Originally Posted by starswordc View Post
If it walks like an idiot, talks like an idiot, and acts like an idiot, it's a frakking idiot.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 108
# 36
04-02-2013, 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowfang240 View Post
it doesn't need a specialty crew, because star trek has photonics, which are just as capable of piloting fighters as flesh-and-blood pilots
Photonic pilots, photonic craft
massive photonic spam.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,880
# 37
04-02-2013, 11:12 AM
I don't think anyone would want a carrier that is completely unarmed except for it's fighter compliment.
Replicators, industrial or otherwise are not the infinite material source some would perceive, they require energy on a massive scale and possibly some source of raw materials which would need to be housed somewhere. Also contributing to it's size is it's propulsion and energy systems, matter/antimater and fusion reactors all use reaction mass which must be stored aboard ship. Starships are meant to be afield for multiple years at a time, not simply a few months deployment, so the amount of interior volume dedicated to crew is considerably greater than would be the case of a modern carrier. A modern carrier built to meet those requirements and still be able to field 80 fighters would be considerably larger than an Atrox.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,803
# 38
04-02-2013, 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by glados122 View Post
Photonic pilots, photonic craft
massive photonic spam.
if you think the pitiful amount of deployables this game can support constitutes 'spam', i suggest you go play a game like homeworld; you'll quickly realize just what 'spam' really is
Quote:
[Combat (Self)] Your Kumari Phaser Wing Cannons - Overload deals 128698 (67705) Phaser Damage(Critical) to Borg Bird-of-Prey.
don't mess with the andorians
Quote:
Originally Posted by starswordc View Post
If it walks like an idiot, talks like an idiot, and acts like an idiot, it's a frakking idiot.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 354
# 39
04-02-2013, 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
You mean besides their inability to keep themselves alive regardless of what's going on around them?
Okay, you're discussing mechanics and I'm discussing story, but sure let's go with that.

Since small craft have an excessively high rate of attrition, don't you think without some way of replenishing small craft complement on-site a starship would inevitably and quickly run out of them? Which, mind you, doesn't happen in-game unless you're using consumables.

Quote:
...Replicators, industrial or otherwise are not the infinite material source some would perceive, they require energy on a massive scale and possibly some source of raw materials which would need to be housed somewhere. Also contributing to it's size is it's propulsion and energy systems, matter/antimater and fusion reactors all use reaction mass which must be stored aboard ship...
That's exactly my point, sustainability at the cost of smaller maximum complements.

Last edited by theodrim; 04-02-2013 at 11:22 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 40
04-02-2013, 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxvitor View Post
Starships are meant to be afield for multiple years at a time, not simply a few months deployment, so the amount of interior volume dedicated to crew is considerably greater than would be the case of a modern carrier.
Not necessarily. While it's absolutely true some ships were designed to go multiple years without resupply (mostly long range survey and research vessels), most were drawn up to operate within relatively modest supply constraints.


Quote:
Originally Posted by maxvitor View Post
A modern carrier built to meet those requirements and still be able to field 80 fighters would be considerably larger than an Atrox.
Again, I disagree. Shuttlebays on a Galaxy-class ship hold roughly 30 auxiliary craft, while the bays themselves take up only a small percentage of the ship's overall volume. It's not at all inconceivable for a ship with much larger dedicated hangar space (such as the Atrox) to be capable of carrying and fielding several times that number.
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