Lt. Commander
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 179
# 71
04-02-2013, 01:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
A single fighter, or even a fighter wing by itself isn't going to take down an enemy fleet. But a fighter wing wolf-pack hunting for damaged ships in support of a friendly force can absolutely do a monstrous amount of harm if deployed correctly.
A light cruiser in the same role can do the job just as well but is almost certain to survive the encounter. A damaged ship is still a great threat to a fighter wing, even by just exploding.

Star Trek isn't kind to small craft.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 354
# 72
04-02-2013, 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowfang240 View Post
i think that was more the cardassians not biting at what was an obvious attempt to draw their forces out of position than those waves being obliterated before they could actually open a hole in enemy lines
The corollary to this being, of course, that for the Cardassians to have a realistic choice in that matter (i.e. they weren't forced to respond) the peregrines could not have been terribly effective on their own. For them to have not been effective, they either lacked firepower or were vulnerable enough their firepower was not being brought to bear.

Quote:
Yes, they must resupply. As must every ship engaged in frontline combat. Very few warships are designed for long-term, unsupported deployments (be they present day ones or fictional future ones). In addition, given the capacity for just about any other 25th century vessel to carry a number of strike craft, the option of resupplying a carrier in the field is much more viable.
Let's ditch the real-life comparison stuff, here. We're talking Trek.

But for the fact most of those vessels are far more effective deployed themselves opposed to operating in a logistics role, sure. A role, lest we forget, is greatly diminished in light of starships' ability to self-supply while deployed. Moreover, most Federation vessels (at least) are designed for long-term exploration missions and therefore are designed for self-sufficiency, not for wartime deployment and certainly not to lack self-sufficiency. Canonically, the first actual warship class (as in, designed primarily and exclusively for wartime use) in Starfleet was the Defiant, and it's an escort.

Quote:
Show me a missile that can execute an escort or reconnaissance mission.
Class (X) probes for one, which are more or less photon torpedoes with the warhead replaced by a mission-appropriate sensor suite, are adequate for reconnaissance. Which, mind you, is another role that has been greatly obviated and/or changed due to Star Trek tech (sensors the ranges of which extend for light-years).

Last edited by theodrim; 04-02-2013 at 01:33 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 426
# 73
04-02-2013, 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
Show me a missile that can execute an escort or reconnaissance mission.
Fighters can't escort anything. They have neither the firepower nor the speed to do so effectively.

As for reconnaissance, that's why we have probes. They're smaller, faster, and disposable.
Quote:
Show me a missile that can carry the same level of firepower that a manned strike craft can, and deploy said firepower intelligently.
Take a Peregrine fighter, replace the cockpit with an antimatter warhead, and run a photonic AI on pocket-watch sized chunk of computronium.

Much more lethal than a manned strike craft, just as intelligent, and far more disposable.

Quote:
You know, I think I know how pilots arguing against designers not putting guns on Vietnam era fighters felt, or against those who lobbied against air to air combat training.
What a totally unrelated issue.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 918
# 74
04-02-2013, 01:55 PM
Don't agree with you there but since we are on the subject why in the world are other carriers from the store able to put out all of their ships at once while the rest have to press the button and wait for the timer to press it again to get the full number of ships out, even those science vessels with shield repair bots which are tiny btw have to wait. This is not good imo, if it's a carrier it should take 1 button to put out the max fighters at once. There should be no waiting when we warp into a map.
I would like for the devs to open a poll/feedback thread on what exactly the players would like to see in the near future for the game.
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,143
# 75
04-02-2013, 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by squishkin View Post
Take a Peregrine fighter, replace the cockpit with an antimatter warhead, and run a photonic AI on pocket-watch sized chunk of computronium.

Much more lethal than a manned strike craft, just as intelligent, and far more disposable
a wing of M5'd peregrine's... that could be... interesting.
as it turns out, an intrepid would lose a fight with a connie.
and thats canon.
! the power of plot compels you.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,159
# 76
04-02-2013, 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
Gameplay trumps realism.

/thread
This


/10char
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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,954
# 77
04-02-2013, 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theodrim View Post
the peregrines could not have been terribly effective on their own. For them to have not been effective, they either lacked firepower or were vulnerable enough their firepower was not being brought to bear.
oh, but they were

at the beginning of those attack runs, we see 3 peregrines firing a volley of cannon fire (just cannon fire mind you; no torpedoes...or at least i don't remember any torpedoes being fired) at a galor and doing serious damage to it
Quote:
[Combat (Self)] Your Kumari Phaser Wing Cannons - Overload deals 128698 (67705) Phaser Damage(Critical) to Borg Bird-of-Prey.
don't mess with the andorians
Quote:
Originally Posted by starswordc View Post
If it walks like an idiot, talks like an idiot, and acts like an idiot, it's a frakking idiot.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 354
# 78
04-02-2013, 10:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowfang240 View Post
oh, but they were

at the beginning of those attack runs, we see 3 peregrines firing a volley of cannon fire (just cannon fire mind you; no torpedoes...or at least i don't remember any torpedoes being fired) at a galor and doing serious damage to it
I just watched the episode not long ago; I'd hardly call that serious damage, especially for the fact two of them got destroyed in the exchange.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,954
# 79
04-02-2013, 10:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theodrim View Post
I just watched the episode not long ago; I'd hardly call that serious damage, especially for the fact two of them got destroyed in the exchange.
they did the same amount of damage a galaxy later did to another one with a phaser barrage, and that one got disabled by it
Quote:
[Combat (Self)] Your Kumari Phaser Wing Cannons - Overload deals 128698 (67705) Phaser Damage(Critical) to Borg Bird-of-Prey.
don't mess with the andorians
Quote:
Originally Posted by starswordc View Post
If it walks like an idiot, talks like an idiot, and acts like an idiot, it's a frakking idiot.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 80
04-03-2013, 04:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowfang240 View Post
oh, but they were

at the beginning of those attack runs, we see 3 peregrines firing a volley of cannon fire (just cannon fire mind you; no torpedoes...or at least i don't remember any torpedoes being fired) at a galor and doing serious damage to it
Dominion War era fighters were never shown with anything beyond pulse phaser cannons. But those cannons were absolutely shown inflicting serious damage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theodrim
I just watched the episode not long ago; I'd hardly call that serious damage, especially for the fact two of them got destroyed in the exchange.
Peregrines did more damage, and were shown to have a better in combat loss ratio than Miranda-class frigates did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the1tigglet
Don't agree with you there but since we are on the subject why in the world are other carriers from the store able to put out all of their ships at once while the rest have to press the button and wait for the timer to press it again to get the full number of ships out, even those science vessels with shield repair bots which are tiny btw have to wait. This is not good imo, if it's a carrier it should take 1 button to put out the max fighters at once. There should be no waiting when we warp into a map.
No carrier in STO can fully deploy in one pulse. All hangars support two separate wings of ships.
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