Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,416
# 31
04-04-2013, 03:29 PM
I have to agree. The new Engineering Traits just are meh.

The Miracle Worker ability is nice.

The Battery Power, seems like they were doing this for PvPers, because several of them use Aux to Batteries and manage to rotate them very effectively in keeping powers maximized, thus making them harder (or impossible) to defeat.

The other powers, don't really feel like they are beneficial at all. A healing power on Turrets, which means its ignoring half of the Engineer sets, which have gone largely ignored.


And Science is rather blah as well, but Tacticals, oh boy everything they have is surely going to cause balancing problem. Like the expose with grenades, in a PvP group one lobs a grenade and the rest use split beams for group clean up with group exploit kills.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,841
# 32
04-04-2013, 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by azurianstar View Post
The Battery Power, seems like they were doing this for PvPers, because several of them use Aux to Batteries and manage to rotate them very effectively in keeping powers maximized, thus making them harder (or impossible) to defeat.
Reading the comments from the PvPers, I don't think they agree with this trait either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by azurianstar View Post
The other powers, don't really feel like they are beneficial at all. A healing power on Turrets, which means its ignoring half of the Engineer sets, which have gone largely ignored.
Yes, it's the same with the embassy kits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by azurianstar View Post
And Science is rather blah as well, but Tacticals, oh boy everything they have is surely going to cause balancing problem. Like the expose with grenades, in a PvP group one lobs a grenade and the rest use split beams for group clean up with group exploit kills.
I actually think it will be 5 tacs, all throwing grenades. Dodge one grenade and roll into another: instant expose.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,841
# 33
04-04-2013, 06:02 PM
EPS Manifold Efficiency has been improved by the latest patch. It now gives +20 power instead of +10. I still think its effectiveness is limited by the power caps. Does anyone know how long the buff lasts?
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,587
# 34
04-04-2013, 09:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by frtoaster View Post
EPS Manifold Efficiency has been improved by the latest patch. It now gives +20 power instead of +10. I still think its effectiveness is limited by the power caps. Does anyone know how long the buff lasts?
5 seconds or so I think, presuming it hasn't been changed.

Ooo...ahh, 5 whole seconds. You can sure a LOT in that amount of time.

Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,293
# 35
04-06-2013, 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
If the EPS Manifold Efficiency bonus was affected by your Batteries skill, that'd go a long way to making it more worth while.

Instead of lasting like 3 seconds or so, maybe it could last 10 or 15.

Though the real annoyance lies with the power cap itself. The warp cores will let you have shields, aux, or engines at 130, but that won't help much in the long run because you're still capped.

If engineers are meant to have the advantage of 'mega-power', we need to be able to have the 'mega-power' levels.
That's actually a good point. You can't tell me an escort is putting out the same amount of juice as a cruiser. The Defiant has an overpowered warp core. But that doesn't mean it's warp core outpowered the Enterprise-E's.

And there's no way...NO WAY that any escort in this game has comparable power output to the Odyssey's warp core.

So yes, an engineer and/or Cruiser being able to breach the 125 power cap makes sense to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by illcadia View Post
Just because miracle worker is useful doesn't mean it's a balanced or well designed power. It's not. It's useful, but really should be much better than it is. Having 'more uses' of a bad power is not necessarily a good trait. Now, if they fixed miracle worker to not be just a giant hull heal and actually be a good power? Then this trait could be worthwhile.
In its defense, Miracle Worker is also a shield heal.

In agreeing with you, if it just cleared all debuffs and added a resist to them being reapplied, e.g. Borg Shield neutralizer, Hazard Emitters on CD, drop in Miracle Worker, instead of the neutralizer being cleared, which would be a miracle it's still there, eating your shields. And further as soon as it's cleared with HE in some instances, it's immediately reapplied. Miracle Worker should give temporary resist to that.

It's named for Scotty, who figured out how the Bounty ran, got it ready for travel, repaired the cloaking devices, and replaced the Klingon food packs.

So he would restore structural integrity, reraise the shields, and purge the shield system of the Borg Neutralizer and counter the effect (until the Borg Adapt and you start all over again).

Do all that, and then Miracle Worker becomes something you're just waiting, dying to have reset. Instead of being screwed by a long chain of spam.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyranger1414 View Post
They're already unkillable bricks as it is.
I don't feel very immortal.
Yes I support This

"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 471
# 36
04-08-2013, 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by abyssinain View Post
Oh so youre mad you get an instant recharge on something that heals over 50% of your hull instantly?
14k hull heal fully skilled is nowhere near 50% of an escorts hull. Any vaguely decent escort at max level should be running at at least 3 times that. If not more.

People who exaggerate to get their points across should be shot.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 63
# 37
04-08-2013, 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
If engineers are meant to have the advantage of 'mega-power', we need to be able to have the 'mega-power' levels.
Increase the power cap or remove it completely for the Engineer class .

It would also be nice to stack more than 20 Batteries, now that there is a trait that is focused on the usage of Batteries.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,587
# 38
04-09-2013, 01:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captaind3 View Post
That's actually a good point. You can't tell me an escort is putting out the same amount of juice as a cruiser. The Defiant has an overpowered warp core. But that doesn't mean it's warp core outpowered the Enterprise-E's.

And there's no way...NO WAY that any escort in this game has comparable power output to the Odyssey's warp core.

So yes, an engineer and/or Cruiser being able to breach the 125 power cap makes sense to me.
Indeed. I mean, any ship as it stands now, can easily and effectively run with just as much power for just as much uptime as a cruiser, probably more if the player is good enough. Between batteries and the upcoming warp cores, even power isn't going to be a real issue for anyone, thus any big power bonuses an engineer can use are just gonna be wasteful because of the pure and simple fact of how their own unique abilities are not needed because anybody can gain a huge amount of free and easy power.

Raising the cap by a lot is really what needs to happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moo8e View Post
Increase the power cap or remove it completely for the Engineer class .
Agreed. At least 150, though 200 or no cap at all would be better.

That alone would serve as a huge boost to the class in space. They wouldn't have the CC of a sci, or raw hard DPS of a tac, but if that engineer was suddenly sitting at 175 power (roughly) across the board, they're gonna have a lot of advantages:


Weapons: While not doing the 'mega numbers' of a tac, an engy-cruiser is gonna be hitting pretty blasted hard all of a sudden, even with beams. I could see beam arrays doing easily around the 2,000-2500 range, if not more, before crits. That is gonna lay down some major hurting on something. (And with Romulan tac boffs and various special consoles, anybody can get lots of easy crit nowadays)

Engines: They'll easily max out their defense from speed of course, not to mention the significant bonus to turn rate a high engine power can give (at least I think so), add in something like an evasives, and maybe keeping a broadside on something won't be quite as painful.

Shields: Even more resists and regen on shields than we have now. Pretty much all there is to that. Oh, and stronger uses of Extend Shields and RSF.

Aux: Super-strong heals and really potent aux-based sci skills, on most cruisers there isn't much of that, but it'd make a surprising difference in the long run.


Now, this might seem like it's stepping too much on the toes of the other classes, but it really isn't. Engineers wouldn't be masters of one of the other two, still be a more 'jack of all trades', but they would have more teeth in various ways by truly being the 'masters of power'. Without raising the power level, they don't really gain anything out of this trait. Plus, the power bonuses are still only temporary, that 125 aux or weapons on a sci ship or escort is gonna pretty much stay there.



Here's something I just thought of: Take an engineer, put it in a 'standard issue' cruiser with a Cmdr and Lt. Cmdr engineering slot. Set it up in whatever way you want. Pop an Aux battery. So, with the new bonuses and such you'll gain your aux battery, then more power to all the systems.

Then hit aux to batteries. As it stands now, you will cap out at 125, and that's it. It's nice (especially if running an A2B build), but you still have that limit, and so does everybody else. With a higher or limitless cap for an engineer, all of a sudden that 125 is gonna jump up to 150 or more. It makes a big difference.



As it stands, I feel there's two main problems involving this new trait:

1. The fact it lasts for such a short time, the bonus power from this trait, is laughable at best, and serves so little purpose as to not matter in the grander scheme of a PvP match or an STF, etc etc.

To make it more useful: It'd really need to be affected by the batteries skill. Preferably it should last as long as the battery. Though even half as long would be something. It is still only 10-20 power per system regardless.


2. Remove the power cap for Engineers ONLY, or make it based off the ship (again, engineers only though).

Taking off the cap for all ships might be seen as a bit over the top, so making it based on the ship might work as well. Like for example, cruisers would have the highest caps (or overall caps) or no caps at all. Escorts would have a large cap on weapons, a decently higher cap on engines, and little to none on shields and aux (as in, it'd stop at 125 still). Sci ships would be the opposite: Lots of extra in aux and shields, but little to none in weapons and engines.

That'd be more work, but might be better for balance to not just let an engineer over-mega-charge any ship he desires, and makes a ship choice a bit more strategic; though removing the cap for all ships lets an engineer take a ship and boost it to it's maximum potential by filling it full of power and such, like an engineer is great at doing in the first place, considering the very nature of the class.



Honestly, just allowing us to test some of that I mentioned would go a long way in giving the engineers something unique for them to bring to the table. Right now, they really don't offer much to a team setting except that they survive really well. They need something of their OWN that the other two classes WON'T EVER GET, period.

Yes, I know the devs are worried about making one class the purely 'go to' class, and that makes sense, but by not doing anything, they are only making it worse in a way, because we aren't getting the chance to try and enhance the classes accordingly.

(Phew, that was a long post)

Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 916
# 39
04-13-2013, 12:36 AM
Well, the latest patch notes are interesting. Not only will the trait trigger on batteries, but also whenever you pop an Emergency Power to X ability (although it'll only give you +10 to all subsystems, not +20).

What remains to be seen is the duration of that +10, but regardless I approve of this improvement as while it is admittedly just 'more power from more sources', it enables some degree of build support for engineers running different types of ships- escorts or sci, as they'll be able to maintain a fairly solid set of power levels across the board, regardless of what their specific focus is in.

Additionally, with the reduction of the shared global cooldown between different sets of the same EPTX power to 20 seconds (from 30), we'll have a nearly constant source of power to all subsystems should we run those options, rather than just a brief heightening of power levels when we occasionally pop a battery.


Now admittedly I find I rarely need extra power, but that's typically in generic pvp or pve combat- against drain builds, which are becoming more prevalent as of late, I need all the power I can get- and this looks to be a good step towards mitigating those- or at least to a degree.

Ideally this trait would apply some sort of lesser nadion inversion effect to any EPtX ability to the subsystem it enhances.

Emergency power to engines? Engines resist power drain/disable. Weapons? Ditto.

But as it stands this change has made the trait much more robust, and indirectly provides engineers with more options.




For example, right now I use a warp core doff to provide a chance at a power boost whenever I use EPtWhatever. With this trait, I could remove that doff, have a far higher power heightening uptime, and stick in some other doff. While other classes could use the doff, they wouldn't have the same power heightening uptime [the engineers] would.

Which is a good step in the right direction, I think.


We still need more space/ground traits of course- across the board for all professions, but I think this change is a good first step. Hopefully Cryptic follows it up with another good step and doesn't slip on a banana peel and face plant in the bushes.
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