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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 6
# 31
04-18-2013, 08:04 PM
While as a Trekkie I will readily agree that D'deridexes are much bigger than Galaxies and by all rights should not be more agile than one, I would argue that rather than make the D'deridex handle like a pig in mud, you ought to be giving it a decent maneuverability and improving the wretched maneuverability of Federation cruisers to match it. Seriously, they're all awful. There's not a single cruiser that didn't torture me with moving like it was in molasses; I switched to science vessels just because I couldn't handle another minute of being trapped in a cruiser.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 535
# 32
04-18-2013, 09:06 PM
Question about the Singularity Plasma Pulse.

Is this boosted by plasma tactical consoles, or anything else that boosts plasma damage, zero point console, for example.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,939
# 33
04-18-2013, 10:01 PM
its not so much that there is a unique problem with the D'deridex having one of the lowest turn rates, compared to other ships it probably should. the problem is the floor for turn rates, the lowest they go, is WAAAAAAAAY to low to be any fun to use, or to be even useful. the correct turn rate floor is that which the kdf battle cruisers have, between 9 and 11. these turn MUCH worse then escorts, and noticeably worse then sci ships, but at least they arent unusably bad, they are about perfect.

turn rate is a more important to combat stat then hitpoints, or consoles, even station setup. it allows positioning, damage mitigation, and being able to point weapons that do more then a net of 0 damage to your target. thats another problem, weapons that arent DHCs being useless, but thats for another topic.

this is pretty much the last straw, seeing the D'deridex this way. at least the negvar is a viable ship with its turn rate, hell even the horrible galaxy R can separate its saucer. the battle cloak with the +10 to turn rate is nice and all, but like i said its the floor thats the problem. turn rate is modified multiplicative, not additively, so engine power, skill points, abilites and consoles all multiply by your base, the difference of 1 base after all these modifiers is absolutely huge. a ship with a base of 20 sits at about 50 turn without even trying. a ship with a 6 turn will never see better then 15.

i dont think certain ships should turn better then their size should let them just because, but for christ sake everything has to be usable. theres a really simple way to fix this, and do the entire game a huge amount of good, and thats by basically just giving every cruiser plus ~2 turn rate. as a category of ships, they still have the worst turn, but like the kdf cruisers, they would be enjoyable to fly.

odyssey- 8
all galaxys- 8.5
star cruiser- 9
ambassador- 9
sovereign- 9.5


Jem Dread Carrier-7
Recluse- 7
dkora- 9.5
Orb Weaver-10
galor- 11

kamarang- 11

D'deridex- 9
tier 5 rom whatever- 8

everyone would be happy, people would buy more cruisers, new players drawn to LOF wile leveling their romulans would not stop playing as soon as then went from the 14 turn mogia to the 5 turn D'deridex. you know, stuff like that, that makes business sense. players will hate, HAAAAATE going from the mogai to the D'deridex, all the new customers your trying to attract especially. its time, finally, to fix how horrible and unfun all the iconic ships in the game are, the cruisers.

balance concerns? what balance concerns. cruisers are so freaking underpowered right now its not even funny. all the defensive power creep, combined with high speed avoidance has made escorts nearly unkillable, and theres been nearly as much power creep to spike damage. cruisers benefit from the healing power creep to a lower degree, because they cant combine it with maneuvering, and their damage over time is now rendered null by the average regeneration and resistance levels. then the kick in the balls EPt skill change, holy crap, its a bad time to like cruisers. unless that 10 second gap is completely walked back, cruisers will be nonviable compared to escorts and sci ships. YOU NEED TO ADDRESS THIS TOO.

it being intentional that cruisers be this tank healer, that are downright pathetic, costs you money. people want to kill stuff and use their favorite ship to do it, there should be at least limited ways for people to do that. the best way to start doing that is to let them turn better. the second thing you need to do is massively buff pressure damage weapons, keeping in mind the anti pressure levels ships have now with the high resistance and high regeneration. maybe these weapons need to be more front loaded in their damage dealing, 2 shots per cycle instead of 4 on beam arrays and single cannons. in pvp, cruiser damage used to have a modest effect, it could force healing, ware targets down, chase away lone escorts if they couldn't achieve a quick kill, stuff like that. now for any healer it doesn't even mater if they fire.

ok, actual ship stats feedback to come in later posts. DON NOT DISREGARD THIS ONE, this subject is more important then a silly new faction.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus

Last edited by dontdrunkimshoot; 04-19-2013 at 03:30 AM.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 474
# 34
04-18-2013, 10:03 PM
I love the detail jamzjamz has put into the ships so far, but I do have to say the beginning ship and many of the others need more customization I know many hate kit bashing but, honestly could use at least 2 other free variant designs, with 1 or 2 c-store ones... while its fairly obvious the c-store designs will be coming becuase i can't honestly believe 2 cstore separate D'deridexes with no change in design.

You have a lot of ship work ahead of you, I'm slightly disappointed i haven't seen scimitar yet but I suppose you are saving it for c-store, and releasing it after legacy of Romulus is out.

I am however so glad you gave all Romulan ships battle cloak.... +1 for recognizing romulan superior cloak.

Also want to say great skins too a lot more varied then the Klingon ones I appreciate that. Please do a vet skin too
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 35
04-18-2013, 10:50 PM
Originally Posted by archoncryptic View Post
The D'deridex is a huge ship, canonically both larger and slower than the Galaxy. We're doing our best to make it appropriate to the IP, as well as fun to play.
I hope you will remember this, and when the forums explode with the rage of D'D fanboys, you will also improve Galaxy - to make it appropriate to the IP.

Btw, just a little idea. Create an empty map, spawn 20 random loot boxes all over the map and try to loot them with D'D. Now do the same 100x. Then, take an escort for once and notice the difference.

Oh and I fully support dontdrunkimshoot on this one. Low turn serves no balance, no stat budget, it just punishment for player.

Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
Not to mention the primary weapons of the D'Deridex were supposed to be in the "beak", not side mounted.
That's consistent with Iconic ships. Galaxy also shoots its dual banks from EDGE of the saucer in STO

Last edited by dalnar83; 04-18-2013 at 10:52 PM.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 749
# 36
04-18-2013, 11:35 PM
I have been testing with great interest and detail, and I have to agree on several points:

There is no DEDICATED Science Vessel of any kind. Only those horrid, wretched Semi-Support-Cruisers that turn like a dead whale. What you devs need to remember is that about 30% of Science Powers require the player to face the target. Dead Whales cant turn enough to use these powers, so they are forced to stick with heals like HE and TSS.

The Singularity mechanic is great, dont get me wrong. But it needs to have a minor reduction in its cooldown. I would recommend a 40 second CD as opposed to a full minute.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,176
# 37
04-19-2013, 02:19 AM
The T4/5 battlecloak BOP

there is a bug where description says SCI BOFF slot, but UI shows an engineering slot

imho, just make it universal - to have at least ONE sci dedicated ship out there.

(that would make 3 tac BOFF's, 2 universals, or even better - make it 2 Tac, 1 Sci lt.cmdr., 2 universal)

and increase the turnrate to be comparable to the B'Rel (20, 22 would be nice)

the D'Deridex

y u kiddin' with the turnrate?

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Last edited by duaths1; 04-19-2013 at 02:31 AM.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,717
# 38
04-19-2013, 02:22 AM
Originally Posted by archoncryptic View Post
While we always appreciate feedback, I'd really recommend actually playing the D'deridex and getting a feel for it before worrying too much about the turn rate. The Singularity powers go a long way toward changing the feel of the ship. If you play the ship and don't enjoy it, feel free to post about why you feel that way.

Moreover, we have several Warbirds available that are faster if you're interested in a style of play more similar to an Escort. The D'deridex is a huge ship, canonically both larger and slower than the Galaxy. We're doing our best to make it appropriate to the IP, as well as fun to play.
the Gal-x has been the laughing stock of STO since it was first released in like S1.x or 2. Turn rate is only one aspect of why that is.

With the new emergency power design having three ensign skills, is just lol bad. Since many in here have been playing for three years, and trying to use their favorite ships in team for both pve and pvp, how about you join us. We can then demonstrate why we think this is a horrible design.

If that doesn't strike your fancy, how about this. Gecko said escorts sell better, wouldn;t it stand to reason that if the d'deridex had a better layout it would sell better. I have waited three years for this ship, I won't spend money on a galaxy. I have one, i know how much it sucks, and i m a cruiser pilot.
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# 39
04-19-2013, 03:07 AM
The D'deridex-class Warbird could definitely lose that extra ensign engineering slot to be honest, a tactical one would seem more appropriate since the ships was meant to have superior firepower (translated as tactical ability) than a Galaxy-class.
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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# 40
04-19-2013, 03:10 AM
Originally Posted by amosov78 View Post
The D'deridex-class Warbird could definitely lose that extra ensign engineering slot to be honest, a tactical one would seem more appropriate since the ships was meant to have superior firepower (translated as tactical ability) than a Galaxy-class.
Everything in STO has superior firepower than Galaxy.

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