Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,223
# 11
04-20-2013, 12:18 PM
Here's the thing. Cloaking is, mainly, a PvP mechanic at the end of the day. Not to say it has no PvE uses, merely that those uses are more limited.

I have been annoyed by this bug/design flaw/"totally working as intended dude" as well, but I can't remember ever failing a PvE mission because of it. Ever.

I would like to see it changed. But to be honest it would be very low on my list of overall priorities of things to be worked on. Fix the Exchange so I can search certain things by faction, clean up all the tailor bugs, help me keep from getting stuck on top of a cactus in the Romulan desert, fix the chat window bleed over between fleets, make the Transphasic Cluster Torpedo actually shoot when it is supposed to shoot, and a dozen other things that actually bother me a lot more. Then if there's time, come back to this.

It's bothersome, but there are much more bothersome issues about. Just in my opinion, of course.
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Last edited by tsurutafan01; 04-20-2013 at 12:22 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 281
# 12
04-20-2013, 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsurutafan01 View Post
Here's the thing. Cloaking is, mainly, a PvP mechanic at the end of the day.
Why should it be a PvP mechanic in the first place. Cloaking is part of both the Klingons and Ramulans attack Strategy, I can't see them begin their attack run without going cloaking first. So to have them decloak, whiles been hail or for that matter scanning things in space doesn't make it feel right as either a Klingon or a Ramulan.
"You ask why we give our ships computer normal emotions. Do you really want a warship incapable of loyalty?"
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,994
# 13
04-20-2013, 01:22 PM
I agree that cloaks should not be disabled for a bridge officer chatting, ok hailing another vessel should reduce your cloak strength but again, not disable it.

I would happily wait a few days to have a changes made to resolve this issue
Community Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 862
# 14
04-20-2013, 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by squishkin View Post
I honestly don't know.

I don't really have a huge issue with requiring the dropping of the cloak to pick up items/use the transporter. Obviously you can't have the cloak and use shields or weapons (under most conditions).
Meh, I could go either way with the transporter I guess.

Quote:

Communications is the most tricky situation. Obviously you shouldn't decloak to talk to your bridge officers, but should you decloak to communicate outside? I don't know.

It doesn't make sense to me, for example, that you can remain undetectable and hail someone to taunt them. That doesn't make sense to me. It might be different if you're hailing, say, fleet command, but just general hailing is problematic.
Meh, I go from the TV series, whereby they could hail while cloaked.


Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
Tbh, it used to work for a brief period, but got broken. The only way for them to fix it would to adjust every map iirc. They decided it wasn't worth the labor and called it working as intended. I don't see it getting fixed.
This is kind of the point I'm making - that's a very poor excuse, when it was just a case of having broken the KDF I kinda got that, but when you're building a whole new faction based around cloaking? It's simply no longer acceptable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkafei View Post
I agree that cloaks should not be disabled for a bridge officer chatting, ok hailing another vessel should reduce your cloak strength but again, not disable it.

I would happily wait a few days to have a changes made to resolve this issue
I thought about that when someone mentioned it earlier in the thread, but to be honest I can't imagine when it would ever matter as NPCs don't seem to worry about cloak detection, and you can't hail Player Characters
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Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 29
# 15
04-20-2013, 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by squishkin View Post
Communications is the most tricky situation. Obviously you shouldn't decloak to talk to your bridge officers, but should you decloak to communicate outside? I don't know.

It doesn't make sense to me, for example, that you can remain undetectable and hail someone to taunt them. That doesn't make sense to me.
Well, whether it makes sense or not, as far as I can recall, there has never been any indication from canon sources that a ship's hail can be used to determine a ship's location precisely enough to get a target lock, and there are actually quite a few scenes, in various bits of Trek, of cloaked vessels having ship-to-ship communications. If you remember the Chang v Kirk ship battle from Star Trek VI, there is even a scene of exactly what you're describing - Chang taunting Kirk (with Shakespeare quotes, IIRC) whilst fighting him in a cloaked vessel.

As far as this game goes, though, I can see why, purely for gameplay reasons, the devs want to make it so that any actual interaction, like looting, might require a decloak, but the decision to even have that happen due to popup boxes and simply hailing someone seems totally bizarre and ludicrous to me.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 858
# 16
04-20-2013, 01:57 PM
If random interactions are going to decloak you, without warning, then cloaking shouldn't have a long CD.

It seems like Battle Cloak for Romulans is supposed to be part of a strategy that makes up the lower power they get due to the singularity core, to alpha strike over and over, but if that is the case there certainly needs to be adjustments to how it works, and how the rest of the game interacts with it.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 426
# 17
04-20-2013, 02:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smidgy View Post
Well, whether it makes sense or not, as far as I can recall, there has never been any indication from canon sources that a ship's hail can be used to determine a ship's location precisely enough to get a target lock, and there are actually quite a few scenes, in various bits of Trek, of cloaked vessels having ship-to-ship communications. If you remember the Chang v Kirk ship battle from Star Trek VI, there is even a scene of exactly what you're describing - Chang taunting Kirk (with Shakespeare quotes, IIRC) whilst fighting him in a cloaked vessel.
There have definitely been circumstances where you can hail someone while cloaked, but at the same time, given that cloak seems to have heavy EMCON foundations, this doesn't make a great deal of sense.

Which is why I don't think that you should be forced to decloak- I just think it should result in damage to your stealth rating of some indeterminate amount.

In the same vein as going fast: have ships gone fast under cloak? Definitely. But at the same time, going fast makes you easier to detect, even under cloak. Moving at full impulse shouldn't drop your cloak, but it should make you easier to detect.

Basically, the cloak mechanic should actually force you to sneak.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,789
# 18
04-20-2013, 03:34 PM
The flyby boff messages disabling the cloaking device is awful, awful, awful. I tried the cloaking device in precisely one mission, and it annoyed me so much I haven't touched it since.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 734
# 19
04-21-2013, 09:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by squishkin View Post
There have definitely been circumstances where you can hail someone while cloaked, but at the same time, given that cloak seems to have heavy EMCON foundations, this doesn't make a great deal of sense.

Which is why I don't think that you should be forced to decloak- I just think it should result in damage to your stealth rating of some indeterminate amount.

In the same vein as going fast: have ships gone fast under cloak? Definitely. But at the same time, going fast makes you easier to detect, even under cloak. Moving at full impulse shouldn't drop your cloak, but it should make you easier to detect.

Basically, the cloak mechanic should actually force you to sneak.
Romulan cloak only suffered if they went above warp six, it makes no sense for the cloak to suffer at any impulse speed. Additionally, they have had years to improve their cloak beyond that, so those limitations have probably been remedied/improved.

What exactly are we talking about when we say "hail"? Chatting with other players in the chat window or "hails" in episodes and missions? Regardless, I agree that we have seen several instances of vessels hailing other vessels while cloaked without being detected. In fact, the only time I recall a cloaked vessel being detected through their communications was admiral janeway in endgame... though technically her ship was "stealthed" not cloaked, and it was stationary, and she intentionally maintained a long conversation so as to allow the borg queen to locate her, beam her out, assimilate her, and infect the collective.

I think the reason why they don't allow one to scan objects while cloaked is that klingons could easily do the first part of kerrat without having to engage probes or spheres because they could just do that whole part cloaked and they probably felt that advantage was a little too great.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,310
# 20
04-21-2013, 11:09 PM
Now, according to the show, both KDF and Romulan cloaking devices require the cloak drop in order to use the transporter (to beam out of or onto the ship).


The cloak replaces the shields (Uses the same emitters IIRC) and creates interference with the transporters.



As for the Bridge officer thing, yeah totally. Your conn officer giving you an update should not break cloak.

It's total crap that interacting with someone who is no more than ten feet from you, in the same room, should force the cloak to drop.

This isn't a damn Subamarine, we're not being pinged and tracked with echophones. We;re talking about a sophisticated device that bends light and various forms of radiation around the object its affecting, rendering it invisible to sight and sensors.
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