Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 948
# 11
04-22-2013, 01:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
Its a machine
it was never alive in the first place

There is no reason we could not replicate 40,000,000,000 datas and set them on the borg
The fact that you say this about one of the highest characterized Star Trek characters proves you know absolutely nothing about the franchise and are only here to Pew Pew.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 12
04-22-2013, 01:19 AM
Quote:
The fact that you say this about one of the highest characterized Star Trek characters proves you know absolutely nothing about the franchise and are only here to Pew Pew.
higly characterised or not its a machine
you can turn it on and off , remove its limbs , replicate it , reprogram it , store its mind in a retrival system

I do not "pew pew" thats escort guns
I more "peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew Peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew " because I fly mostly cruisers

I know a lot about trek and one of the things I know is species and who is alive and who isn't

Examples
Data / Lore / B4 android not alive
Norman Android not alive
Nog Cyborg alive
Geordie Cyborg alive
Seven of nine Borg technically undead

Many important characters in sci fi are non living robots

examples
Tweekie (buck rogers)
C3p0 (star wars)
Data (Trek)
Rommie (andromeda)
Cameron (terminator)

none of those are alive and any one of them can be duplicated on mass for use as shock troopers
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 702
# 13
04-22-2013, 01:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
higly characterised or not its a machine
you can turn it on and off , remove its limbs , replicate it , reprogram it , store its mind in a retrival system

I do not "pew pew" thats escort guns
I more "peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew Peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew " because I fly mostly cruisers

I know a lot about trek and one of the things I know is species and who is alive and who isn't

Examples
Data / Lore / B4 android not alive
Norman Android not alive
Nog Cyborg alive
Geordie Cyborg alive
Seven of nine Borg technically undead

Many important characters in sci fi are non living robots

examples
Tweekie (buck rogers)
C3p0 (star wars)
Data (Trek)
Rommie (andromeda)
Cameron (terminator)

none of those are alive and any one of them can be duplicated on mass for use as shock troopers
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_..._Man_(episode)

Watch it. Then watch it again. Then watch it a third time.

Data is a sentient being. He is a machine, yes, but then again so are we (just of a different type). Yes, he was built by a human, but then again, so are we (just in a different way). Data is just as alive as we are. The standards for being alive are not as cut and dry as "being a biological organism". Being a machine doesnt disqualify you from being alive.

So the fact that you can comment that Data isnt alive, proves you understand nothing about Trek.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 14
04-22-2013, 02:23 AM
Quote:
Watch it. Then watch it again. Then watch it a third time.
does not make him ALIVE

Quote:
Data is a sentient being.
A mechanical one
one indeed which could be mass produced (starfleet even considered it)

Quote:
He is a machine, yes, but then again so are we (just of a different type).
You might be
Im not

Quote:
Yes, he was built by a human, but then again, so are we (just in a different way).
and we also are possible to replicate
Quote:
Data is just as alive as we are.
No he isn't
He does not breathe , eat , sleep , reproduce etc

Quote:
The standards for being alive are not as cut and dry as "being a biological organism".
yes they are

Quote:
Being a machine doesnt disqualify you from being alive.
it may allow you to be classified as sentient but not living
living beings breathe , eat , sleep , grow etc

Quote:
So the fact that you can comment that Data isnt alive, proves you understand nothing about Trek.
its basic biology
he isn't alive
he himself freely admits to NOT being alive


You guys seem to want to define coffee makers as alive
Career Officer
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 301
# 15
04-22-2013, 03:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
does not make him ALIVE



A mechanical one
one indeed which could be mass produced (starfleet even considered it)



You might be
Im not



and we also are possible to replicate


No he isn't
He does not breathe , eat , sleep , reproduce etc



yes they are



it may allow you to be classified as sentient but not living
living beings breathe , eat , sleep , grow etc



its basic biology
he isn't alive
he himself freely admits to NOT being alive


You guys seem to want to define coffee makers as alive

Data is a fictional character in a story. In that story it is determined that Data is sentient and alive, as such he has the same rights as any biological entity. Therefore your argument is invalid (and a poorly written troll). Good day Sir/Madam.

EDIT: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/living

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merriam Webster

Note how many times Data is directly referred to with one of the above terms. He is (in the Trek Universe) legally classed as fully sentient and exhibits the "life or motion of nature". This is not something you can argue about, it is part of Star Trek canon and thus is not up for debate by anyone outside of the IP holders.

Last edited by donutsmasher; 04-22-2013 at 03:10 AM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 801
# 16
04-22-2013, 03:07 AM
<Changed my mind>
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,697
# 17
04-22-2013, 03:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
Its a machine
it was never alive in the first place

There is no reason we could not replicate 40,000,000,000 datas and set them on the borg
In the immortal words of Kazumi Kato: "Why should I care how many people I have to kill? I can just make more in my tummy!"

Humans can already be cloned and brainwashed, in Star Trek their minds can also be downloaded into various receptables and they can be repaired with replicated parts.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,321
# 18
04-22-2013, 03:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
Its a machine
it was never alive in the first place

There is no reason we could not replicate 40,000,000,000 datas and set them on the borg
The finding of the hearing was that Data is alive, you may have your own opinion of the matter but it is irrelevant because the hearing has already judged him to be alive, sentient and not property.

As a reminder for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYp2dx652ho

To be classified as alive organisms undergo metabolism, maintain homeostasis, possess a capacity to grow, respond to stimuli, reproduce and, through natural selection, adapt to their environment in successive generations. More complex living organisms can communicate through various means.

Let's apply those criteria to Data.

Metabolism: yes, his internal workings control the function of his body in a similar way to our own.
Homeostasis: yes, his metabolism helps to maintain correct operating conditions for his systems to function, pH, temperature etc.
Capacity to grow: yes, but not physical growth, mental growth, the capacity to learn.
Respond to Stimuli: yes, obviously.
Reproduce: yes, Data reproduced by creating lal
Subject to natural selection: yes, in a way Data can create new offspring that better suit the environment they will find themselves in, this could be considered artificial selection such as the way dogs are bred into different roles.
Communication: yes

Others

Self-aware: from the hearing yes
Intelligence: from the hearing yes
Concious: who knows? are you concious, am I? do we have a soul, does Data, nobody knows, but we have to give him the benefit of the doubt.

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Last edited by mattjohnsonva; 04-22-2013 at 04:14 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,089
# 19
04-22-2013, 04:12 AM
Do not feed the trollvax!
Go pro or go home
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 154
# 20
04-22-2013, 04:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
does not make him ALIVE



A mechanical one
one indeed which could be mass produced (starfleet even considered it)



You might be
Im not



and we also are possible to replicate


No he isn't
He does not breathe , eat , sleep , reproduce etc



yes they are



it may allow you to be classified as sentient but not living
living beings breathe , eat , sleep , grow etc



its basic biology
he isn't alive
he himself freely admits to NOT being alive


You guys seem to want to define coffee makers as alive
Wanted to point out about eating, sleeping etc,

Yes data does breathe, yes data can eat, yes data does sleep, and data can grow is hair if he wanted to, and yes data can reproduce (had a daughter).
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