Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 37
# 21
04-21-2013, 11:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tobar26th View Post
So - let's hear it, would you rather wait a touch longer to have this sorted out?
I'm actually going to go with "no." I've been living with this for so long with the KDF that I really don't care any more. My standards are so low that I'm just happy these ships have the "battle cloak" (which makes some kind of sense) rather than the "standard cloak" (which has a restriction that makes no sense.)

This game has a huge amount of things that don't make sense if you think about them too hard, or at all, in-universe or out.

Why does a Gorn shooting at me mean I can't use my warp drive? Why are there no ships with more than four weapons in a direction? Why can't I point my bow "up" or "down" (leading to ridiculous spiral courses whenever I need to change "elevation")? Why can't a guided missile hit something at more than a 90 degree angle from their launcher?

Ultimately, I decided to just shut up and play the game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 170
# 22
04-22-2013, 04:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tobar26th View Post
So - let's hear it, would you rather wait a touch longer to have this sorted out?
Absolutely, let us hope the dev team fixes this.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 959
# 23
04-22-2013, 05:17 AM
First off, the 'de-cloak on popup' was not there at the beginning of the game. Something about the way messages were handled on maps changed, and broke it. Unfortunately, fixing it requires touching every map, so it isn't practical. Right now, you should not expect that there will ever be a game-wide solution.

But what kind of maps SHOULD be fixed? That is the better question.
_________________________________________________
[Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth]
[Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk]
[D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 426
# 24
04-22-2013, 05:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrathofachilles View Post
Romulan cloak only suffered if they went above warp six, it makes no sense for the cloak to suffer at any impulse speed. Additionally, they have had years to improve their cloak beyond that, so those limitations have probably been remedied/improved.
There were at least three instances in DS9 that I can think of that cloaked vessels were tracked at sublight speed. In The Search, DS9 detected the cloaked Defiant- which wasn't moving- albeit only at 300 meters range. In The Die is Cast, DS9 picked up "high concentrations of tetryon particles" and a variety of other technobabble moving toward the station which... resolved itself into a bunch of cloaked ships. Similarly, In The Search II, The Jem'Hadar seemed capable of penetrating the Defiant's cloaking device at sublight speed until they cut main power.

Quote:
What exactly are we talking about when we say "hail"?
The only specific example that bothers me is hailing someone who's out there looking for you specifically; anything else I imagine is to vague to be particularly obvious.

Quote:
I think the reason why they don't allow one to scan objects while cloaked is that klingons could easily do the first part of kerrat without having to engage probes or spheres because they could just do that whole part cloaked and they probably felt that advantage was a little too great.
Scanning is one of those events that, at least in general, requires some violations of EMCON protocols. The Romulan ship in "The Pegasus" didn't keep its cloak up while scanning the asteroid field, despite that it would have been a significant strategic advantage. Similarly, in the two episodes where we hear the most about actual cloaking mechanics- The Search II and Face of the Enemy- it is repeatedly emphasized how important it is to avoid high energy operations that would leak through the cloaking device. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that using high energy active sensors ultimately defeats the purpose of the cloaking device by radiating enough energy that someone can track it.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 959
# 25
04-22-2013, 08:07 AM
Taking an actual action with your ship (even looting,) always decloaked you, as it should. It is when you get de-cloaked because your boff tells you something from across the bridge that it gets silly.
_________________________________________________
[Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth]
[Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk]
[D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,186
# 26
04-22-2013, 08:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naevius View Post
First off, the 'de-cloak on popup' was not there at the beginning of the game. Something about the way messages were handled on maps changed, and broke it. Unfortunately, fixing it requires touching every map, so it isn't practical. Right now, you should not expect that there will ever be a game-wide solution.

But what kind of maps SHOULD be fixed? That is the better question.
IF thats the case then it should be simple to fix as the mechanic that broke the original mechanic didn't touch every map.

Also, MES doesn't drop on comms, does it ? Perhaps fixing the cloak would entail a redesign of the entire mechanic from scratch. But just remember STO doesn't copy other games cloak mechanic nor canon use of the cloak, the cloaking device in STO is a unique device mechanic found ONLY in this game, and DS says it's working the way HE wants it to work. He is the J.J.Abrams of the ST gaming world.
KBF Lord MalaK
Awoken Dead

Contact support @ https://support.perfectworld.com/app/ask
to show your displeasure over the stealth mail attachment nerf
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 733
# 27
04-22-2013, 08:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by squishkin View Post
There were at least three instances in DS9 that I can think of that cloaked vessels were tracked at sublight speed. In The Search, DS9 detected the cloaked Defiant- which wasn't moving- albeit only at 300 meters range. In The Die is Cast, DS9 picked up "high concentrations of tetryon particles" and a variety of other technobabble moving toward the station which... resolved itself into a bunch of cloaked ships. Similarly, In The Search II, The Jem'Hadar seemed capable of penetrating the Defiant's cloaking device at sublight speed until they cut main power.
The defiant wasn't designed to cloak, so it would make sense that it would be easier to detect than other ships that had been designed with that technology in mind. Additionally, as you said, the ship was within 300 meters, which is well within one kilometer at which most cloaked ships in the game also show up. When the defiant was detected, the romulan subcommander onboard said cloaked ships moving at warp speeds give off a slight subspace variance and suggested that after dropping out of warp "they would find nothing." However, the jem'hadar bugs swept the area "with some kind of antiproton scan." read: antiproton sweep, which is a cloak revealing skill in this game taken from the jem'hadar. Additionally, miles states that the defiant's power signature is unusually high for a ship of its size and so they cut main power as the cloak may not be masking everything, again, indicating that defiant was not designed for cloak.

I believe in nemesis that the scimitar's cloaking device was unique in that it gave off no tetryons or antiprotons, the typical means of detecting cloaks. Whether the cloak was a reman improvement or simply a romulan advancement in cloaking technology that was used aboard the scimitar, now that the romulans have scimitars, it would be logical to assume that they also have this improved cloaking technology if it came from the remans removing the tetryon factor. They didn't state what speed the mysterious energy signatures were moving at, but if the ships were moving faster than warp 6, that could have been the reason, or the sheer number of ships in a relatively concentrated area, or more importantly, it was a combined romulan/cardasian fleet, so cardasian ships, again, ships not designed for cloak, were using cloaking devices and that could have accounted for an even greater tetryon particle presence. Also, when miles was called to ops about the readings, he said he had no idea what they were, he'd never seen anything like it, which would again lead me to believe that the strange readings were not a typical way of detecting a cloak, and were quite possibly caused by the interaction of romulan cloaks with cardasian technology.


Quote:
Originally Posted by squishkin View Post
The only specific example that bothers me is hailing someone who's out there looking for you specifically; anything else I imagine is to vague to be particularly obvious.
I would assume that maintaining an open com channel with someone who's specifically looking for you could leave one open to being located, however, brief hails/conversations shouldn't put one in danger, nor should receiving a hail that one simply listens to but does not respond. Additionally, I'm sure there's some technobable that could be used to explain why, "Damn it captain, they're routing their communications through the *technical this* preventing the *technical that* from being detectable!"


Quote:
Originally Posted by squishkin View Post
Scanning is one of those events that, at least in general, requires some violations of EMCON protocols. The Romulan ship in "The Pegasus" didn't keep its cloak up while scanning the asteroid field, despite that it would have been a significant strategic advantage. Similarly, in the two episodes where we hear the most about actual cloaking mechanics- The Search II and Face of the Enemy- it is repeatedly emphasized how important it is to avoid high energy operations that would leak through the cloaking device. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that using high energy active sensors ultimately defeats the purpose of the cloaking device by radiating enough energy that someone can track it.
Agreed, while under cloak, intensive scanning should definitely be an issue, but I think passive and lower sensors shouldn't be a problem. I can't think of any specific examples with references, but I seem to recall several instances of non cloaking federation ships scanning things "gently" as it were so as not to alert the enemy to their presence, so i would assume that being cloaked on top of gentle scanning would allow one to have some use of the sensors without risking detection.

Regardless of all that, for the sake of gameplay, it wouldn't work out so well if one could do most things while cloaked, for example, the entire first half of kerrat while cloaked.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 959
# 28
04-22-2013, 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordmalak1 View Post
IF thats the case then it should be simple to fix as the mechanic that broke the original mechanic didn't touch every map.
No, the reverse. Something in messaging (in the programming sense) related to events/triggers/popups got changed game-wide. It can be 'overridden' on a map by map basis.
_________________________________________________
[Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth]
[Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk]
[D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,186
# 29
04-22-2013, 08:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naevius View Post
No, the reverse. Something in messaging (in the programming sense) related to events/triggers/popups got changed game-wide. It can be 'overridden' on a map by map basis.
Sounds to me 'messaging' should be fixed then.
KBF Lord MalaK
Awoken Dead

Contact support @ https://support.perfectworld.com/app/ask
to show your displeasure over the stealth mail attachment nerf
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,001
# 30
04-22-2013, 09:14 AM
I am a firm believer that is is a bug that was introduced by 'that patch'.

I do believe that they have tried to fix it, but have failed, so now it is working as intended.

I think that picking up a drop should drop the cloak. I also think that a popup or again, any interaction that I have engaged on willingly, should also decloak the ship.

BUT, a popup that I did not click on to engage, or one of the fly text messages where your bridge officer tells you something, should never, ever decloak you.

Unless I physically click on an interaction, my ship should never decloak.

Fed Eng (Main). Fed Sci. Fed Tac. Rom Sci (KDF)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitsune424 View Post
Here is your ticket to the USS Stupidity, Third class, four tacks on the chair, rules state you MUST sit on the chair, no standing, or hovering above the tacks, thank you have a nice day
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:29 PM.