Lt. Commander
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 86
# 141
04-21-2013, 07:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wirtdd View Post
Yes, and that is why "every romulan zoo should have a pair."
Found it - the actual quote is from DS9 - Tears of the Prophets

"Notice the primitive rage in his eye... the uncontrolled brutality. Klingons can be quite entertaining, don't you agree? I think every Romulan zoo should have a pair"

Feds/Romulan/Klingons were sitting around the wardroom table discussing the invasion of Cardassia - klingons and Romulans start insulting each other.

The story in STO is so irritating - the Federation and Klingons should be the ones to be allies. They are much more similar in nature.

Last edited by number1romulan; 04-21-2013 at 07:08 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,734
# 142
04-21-2013, 09:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by number1romulan View Post
Found it - the actual quote is from DS9 - Tears of the Prophets

"Notice the primitive rage in his eye... the uncontrolled brutality. Klingons can be quite entertaining, don't you agree? I think every Romulan zoo should have a pair"

Feds/Romulan/Klingons were sitting around the wardroom table discussing the invasion of Cardassia - klingons and Romulans start insulting each other.

The story in STO is so irritating - the Federation and Klingons should be the ones to be allies. They are much more similar in nature.
IIRC, in the real world it has been observed that more often than not, our similarities are what divide us, either by highlighting our differences, or by the synergy of having the same vices. What made the Klingon/Federation alliance WORK, was that the differences were complementary-that is, the vices didn't exaggerate one another while the virtues filled in the usual gaps. The Romulans have an exaggerated collection of the SAME vices the Federation has, plus the vices of the Klingons, with a twisted-mirror version of the virtues of both of those states.

They have the aggression of the Klingons, but without the courage.
They have the Arrogance of the Federation, but without the Altruism.
They have the Rationality (technical capability) of the Federation, but without the Moral compass to guide or restrain it.

The Klingon Honour system is built around a warrior's code intended to draw vendettas to a quick ending, The Romulan system of honour is designed to DRAW OUT Vendettas and keep them going, to prolong them.

In a way, the Klingons are really MORE like the Federation-they're not interested in extended cold-wars, it goes against their temprament. Romulans, on the other hand, thrive on indirect conflicts and maintaining a state of 'cold war' for as long as is feasably possible-hence the Romulan honour system could well mandate giving your bitterest enemy your last drop of water in the desert.

This "Indirect" aggression can indeed fool an Altruist into thinking the Roms have more in common with the Feds (besides the genetic link to the Vulcans), but it's a shallow analysis.

In short, if you presume the Feds are Democratic, then the Romulans are Courtiers, and the Klingons are Barbarians.

(Note that a famed Chinese Philosopher once observed that "The fundamental difference between a barbarian and a civilized man is, the Barbarian does not torture for pleasure." or words to that effect, in chinese...)

A Klink interrogator may beat the truth out of you, but a Romulan will torture you for giggles, that's the difference and it's all the difference needed.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 535
# 143
04-21-2013, 10:14 PM
Klingon extinction? *chuckles evilly* Good good... The plan is going well.. >;D But for real, always thought the klinks were op and not fun. But that is just me and my opinion. Though klinks do have the Orions.. *ponders*
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,618
# 144
04-21-2013, 10:24 PM
Actualyy come to think of it... Werent they facing extinction after Praxis?
Actualy reading things pefore posting will make you look smarter than yelling loudly. Reading comprehension is aparently a lost art.

Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abriham Lincoln
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 86
# 145
04-21-2013, 11:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
IIRC, in the real world it has been observed that more often than not, our similarities are what divide us, either by highlighting our differences, or by the synergy of having the same vices. What made the Klingon/Federation alliance WORK, was that the differences were complementary-that is, the vices didn't exaggerate one another while the virtues filled in the usual gaps. The Romulans have an exaggerated collection of the SAME vices the Federation has, plus the vices of the Klingons, with a twisted-mirror version of the virtues of both of those states.

They have the aggression of the Klingons, but without the courage.
They have the Arrogance of the Federation, but without the Altruism.
They have the Rationality (technical capability) of the Federation, but without the Moral compass to guide or restrain it.

The Klingon Honour system is built around a warrior's code intended to draw vendettas to a quick ending, The Romulan system of honour is designed to DRAW OUT Vendettas and keep them going, to prolong them.

In a way, the Klingons are really MORE like the Federation-they're not interested in extended cold-wars, it goes against their temprament. Romulans, on the other hand, thrive on indirect conflicts and maintaining a state of 'cold war' for as long as is feasably possible-hence the Romulan honour system could well mandate giving your bitterest enemy your last drop of water in the desert.

This "Indirect" aggression can indeed fool an Altruist into thinking the Roms have more in common with the Feds (besides the genetic link to the Vulcans), but it's a shallow analysis.

In short, if you presume the Feds are Democratic, then the Romulans are Courtiers, and the Klingons are Barbarians.

(Note that a famed Chinese Philosopher once observed that "The fundamental difference between a barbarian and a civilized man is, the Barbarian does not torture for pleasure." or words to that effect, in chinese...)

A Klink interrogator may beat the truth out of you, but a Romulan will torture you for giggles, that's the difference and it's all the difference needed.
Excellent point and just goes to show that it should be Fed/KDF alliance vs Romulans - not this nonsense of a current set-up.

I have decided that I will just keep my top level KDF and use them as farmers - as my Farmer Romulan grows up and joins the Federation. I just can't come around to the idea of being a Klingon and accepting a Romulan or being a Romulan and accepting a klingon - a "klingomulan"
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 262
# 146
04-21-2013, 11:59 PM
Cryptics stories never were so good indeed, but I think all future "Mini Factions" will have to make the choice which of the 2 big ones they join, be it Dominion, Cardasssians or what ever.
Cryptic's shamefull history with the KDF

http://www.stowiki.org/User:Peregrin...ryptic_Studios
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,987
# 147
04-22-2013, 08:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by number1romulan View Post
Excellent point and just goes to show that it should be Fed/KDF alliance vs Romulans - not this nonsense of a current set-up.

I have decided that I will just keep my top level KDF and use them as farmers - as my Farmer Romulan grows up and joins the Federation. I just can't come around to the idea of being a Klingon and accepting a Romulan or being a Romulan and accepting a klingon - a "klingomulan"
I think you still live in the Trek universe before J.J. happened. And I don't blame you for that, personally I'd prefer it as well.
But with what has hapened in Romulan space and what has become of the Romulan Star Empire, it wouldn't make sense in STO for Feds. and KDF to ally just to finish off a scattered and crushed people. I'm not saying that the Romulan faction couldn't have been the RSE anyway, but after Cryptic's decision to involve them into power-fights and assasinations, then introduce the faliure that is Sela as the Empress and have her dissapear, giving Obisek control over the forge and finally creating a civil war in Romulan space after that, it wouldn't make sense for us to have A Fed./KDF alliance to stand against Romulans since obviously the Romulans are nowhere near of capable to handle that kind of opposition at the moment.

So in essence, the direction that Cryptic decided to take the story in STO makes more sense to have Romulans allying to Fed. & KDF, then Fed. & KDF allying to crush already defeated Romulans. Besides, these are D'Tan's Romulans after all, makes sense for them.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 86
# 148
04-22-2013, 06:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shpoks View Post
I think you still live in the Trek universe before J.J. happened. And I don't blame you for that, personally I'd prefer it as well.
But with what has hapened in Romulan space and what has become of the Romulan Star Empire, it wouldn't make sense in STO for Feds. and KDF to ally just to finish off a scattered and crushed people. I'm not saying that the Romulan faction couldn't have been the RSE anyway, but after Cryptic's decision to involve them into power-fights and assasinations, then introduce the faliure that is Sela as the Empress and have her dissapear, giving Obisek control over the forge and finally creating a civil war in Romulan space after that, it wouldn't make sense for us to have A Fed./KDF alliance to stand against Romulans since obviously the Romulans are nowhere near of capable to handle that kind of opposition at the moment.

So in essence, the direction that Cryptic decided to take the story in STO makes more sense to have Romulans allying to Fed. & KDF, then Fed. & KDF allying to crush already defeated Romulans. Besides, these are D'Tan's Romulans after all, makes sense for them.
Please don't mention the name that should never be spoken regarding the Trek universe - it's his warped alternate universe that moves from 1 explosion/chase/esplosion to the next every 30 seconds - it seems that has become the lenght of American's ability to stay focased on a scene these days - truely sad. American tv and movies follow this 30 second scene rule it seems - I guess they go with the scientific studies to show that the avg adults attention span has dropped massively over the last 30 years and continues to drop. You can't really have many blockbusters with actual story telling these days
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 149
04-22-2013, 07:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by number1romulan View Post
Please don't mention the name that should never be spoken regarding the Trek universe - it's his warped alternate universe that moves from 1 explosion/chase/esplosion to the next every 30 seconds - it seems that has become the lenght of American's ability to stay focased on a scene these days - truely sad. American tv and movies follow this 30 second scene rule it seems - I guess they go with the scientific studies to show that the avg adults attention span has dropped massively over the last 30 years and continues to drop. You can't really have many blockbusters with actual story telling these days
Hate to tell you but its not just America, its everywhere. Though I agree the art of story telling is rare these days in modern world.
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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 150
04-23-2013, 07:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by disposeableh3r0 View Post
Actualyy come to think of it... Werent they facing extinction after Praxis?
Perhaps not extinction, but certainly a lot of economic and societal upheaval. Klingons live on more worlds than just Qo'noS. They have colonies all throughout the Empire, with at least 4-5 heavily populated worlds that I've heard reference to in novelizations, etc.

The problem the Klingon Empire has always had (from what I can understand) is that they live in a region of space that is somewhat less abundant in resource-rich worlds. Combine that with the economic pressure of maintaining a strong border and military presence against the Federation and their need to keep expanding their territory, and you can see the issue.

It's a metaphor for the collapse of the USSR. If left alone and in peace, the USSR likely would've been able to keep itself going. As it was, however, it was trying to compete geopolitically with the United States and Europe, and expending a large amount of resources to do so. This would've made them less capable of handling sudden crises and the like, in the same way that the Klingon Empire was threatened by the destruction of Praxis.
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