Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 761
# 2021
04-22-2013, 01:05 AM
Had a nasty ISE yesterday, we didn't get the optional, but what was horrible about it was the tac cube one shotting everybody and then fully regening to full health . It sucked bad


Mirror NX, you know you want it
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,562
# 2022
04-22-2013, 02:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferdzso0 View Post
newsflash, his tactic could work of anyone is half decent in the group, so lets stop bashing those people who know a bit about advanced (rml advanced, lolwut?) tactics
Counter to your statement, I contend, sirrah, that RML only works reliably in Cure Normals-aka "Cure Space Nerf". In "elites" it only works where 3/5 or more of the team are, what you seem to think is "Half decent".

Cure Space Nerf's Raptors are about as tough as CSE's BoPs, spawn more slowly, etc. while Cure Nerf's Negh'vars are about on par with CSE's Raptors, both in terms of damage each does individually, and in terms of shield and hull health and use of abilities.

RML works GREAT in Cure Nerf, regardless of build-and that, sirrah, is the problem here-people thinking whatever junk builds they have are fine, because they worked in the Nerfed version of an STF.

So, they try it out in Elite, and fail the mission out. Otoh, Cure has a definite, predictable strategy in "Elite" play-if most of your team follows it, most of the time, they'll succeed, and if they're "Half decent" they'll pull the Optional with time to spare.

Because, Sirrah, it's predictable.

1, clear first wave of BoPs.
2. Clear lower tier of probes.
3. Clear upper Tier of Probes and the Negh'var/Raptor spawn.
4. Move to next target.
5. Repeat steps 2,3, and 4 until all three stacks have been reduced.
6. Pop cubes, moving "RIght/Middle/Left"- this narrows the frontage, and the Negh'var spawn from the Left has further to go to reach the Kang, giving the team the ability to finish the last cube quickly, before they arrive, then take them out-while one guy hails the Kang, securing the Optional with some room for bad luck to NOT blow the entire mission (aka someone getting invisitorped or somesuch.)

It is Predictable, it WORKS. going (RML)Stack-stack-stack only works if your team's 60% or more raw DPS machines (TacScorts with all the rep passives, the right set-pieces, and purple MkXII weapons fed by purple consoles)...except in Cure Nerf, where, like some of those school 'athletic functions' you get a purple ribbon for participation...
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,041
# 2023
04-22-2013, 04:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
Counter to your statement, I contend, sirrah, that RML only works reliably in Cure Normals-aka "Cure Space Nerf". In "elites" it only works where 3/5 or more of the team are, what you seem to think is "Half decent".

Cure Space Nerf's Raptors are about as tough as CSE's BoPs, spawn more slowly, etc. while Cure Nerf's Negh'vars are about on par with CSE's Raptors, both in terms of damage each does individually, and in terms of shield and hull health and use of abilities.

RML works GREAT in Cure Nerf, regardless of build-and that, sirrah, is the problem here-people thinking whatever junk builds they have are fine, because they worked in the Nerfed version of an STF.

So, they try it out in Elite, and fail the mission out. Otoh, Cure has a definite, predictable strategy in "Elite" play-if most of your team follows it, most of the time, they'll succeed, and if they're "Half decent" they'll pull the Optional with time to spare.

Because, Sirrah, it's predictable.

1, clear first wave of BoPs.
2. Clear lower tier of probes.
3. Clear upper Tier of Probes and the Negh'var/Raptor spawn.
4. Move to next target.
5. Repeat steps 2,3, and 4 until all three stacks have been reduced.
6. Pop cubes, moving "RIght/Middle/Left"- this narrows the frontage, and the Negh'var spawn from the Left has further to go to reach the Kang, giving the team the ability to finish the last cube quickly, before they arrive, then take them out-while one guy hails the Kang, securing the Optional with some room for bad luck to NOT blow the entire mission (aka someone getting invisitorped or somesuch.)

It is Predictable, it WORKS. going (RML)Stack-stack-stack only works if your team's 60% or more raw DPS machines (TacScorts with all the rep passives, the right set-pieces, and purple MkXII weapons fed by purple consoles)...except in Cure Nerf, where, like some of those school 'athletic functions' you get a purple ribbon for participation...
a half decent player (5-6k dps) can defend against bops and raptors (with a hint of cc you dont even need help on the first spawns), while the rest do rml (it will be slow, if those have crap dps, but that is doable, and not hard)

also I feel old for knowing that ancient tactic you are talking about. that is already proven to be inferior to mrrmll even on bad teams (and technically mrrmll is for bad teams)
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10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
Career Officer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 245
If we are bringing up CC or CE, then a funny/infuriating moment for me was a clown in some weak-a** cruiser warped if with a laundry list of injuries.........I had been drinking so I decided to engage him........Then event went without any major issues but he/she/it blatantly said that I ,and by extension the team, were expected to carry he/she/it through the instance. Comments like "It's not like this is instance is hard." or "LOL blah blah blah I havent played this toon in forever" (What was LOL about that I have no idea....).....So I flat out asked does one think it's ok to force the team to carry you?.....to which I got one word "yes"..............y'all may think I overreacted or whatever(again I had been drinking) but I reported that obnoxious turd..........

Edit: I was arguing the principle of the matter....which has spilled over into most if not all PvE PUG events...and rarely some of the channels.....
Sound of Interstellar Space

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.

Last edited by thumpyecho; 04-22-2013 at 10:19 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,510
# 2025
04-22-2013, 12:51 PM
I happened to be parsing one CSE pug, the team blew up one cube after another (RML). I was doing ~9k dps (guarding kang) and everyone else were under 3k dps. Missed the optional by a couple of seconds. I'm not the best pilot out there, and I definitely fit the description of half decent but this goes to show that RML works and just needs more dps (at least 5k for each teammate?) to make it happen.

I still prefer mrrmll for CSE though, it's gotta be the best tactic out there (less spawns of raptors).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ferdzso0 View Post
also I feel old for knowing that ancient tactic you are talking about. that is already proven to be inferior to mrrmll even on bad teams (and technically mrrmll is for bad teams)
It's kind of like the one on stowiki.
Reality is WAR

KHG Klingon Honor Guard

Last edited by deokkent; 04-22-2013 at 12:53 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,860
# 2026
04-22-2013, 02:44 PM
Ahh, how the new crystal catastrophe scoring system really brings out the teamplay instincts in people.

Was running the instance, when i noticed one ship (let's call them a non-carnivore) ignoring everything except the large crystal fragments. They'd be shooting them, ignoring the small fragments and thus healing the CE. Extending the final phase for much, much longer than seemed polite...or enjoyable for anyone else.

I sent them a polite tell, inquiring if they knew that they were healing the CE.


After the round,they sent me a reply telling me they knew exactly what they were doing and, oh first place for them!

Hurrah for teamplay.

Perhaps, the new scoring system isn't incentivising players in exactly the way cryptic intended......maybe they should call it a 'rewarding-the-troll' system......
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,510
# 2027
04-22-2013, 03:30 PM
Hahahaha thanks for the comment. People apparently do know about teamplay, they just don't do it when it doesn't benefit them basically XD.
Reality is WAR

KHG Klingon Honor Guard
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,860
# 2028
04-22-2013, 06:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deokkent View Post
Hahahaha thanks for the comment. People apparently do know about teamplay, they just don't do it when it doesn't benefit them basically XD.
hmmm, so a manifesto for the afk lurkers in ESTFs then.

After all, why play for the team when you can fly off to the far end of the map, let everyone else do the work, save any components potentially lost due to damage and still get all the rewards?

Basically, if you're not working for the team in a team fleet action, you're kind of missing the point.

Besides, if your build is so bad you can't get first place the old fashioned way by...you know....being the person who contributes most to the teams effort, then isn't it a tad pathetic to do so by doubling the length of time the action takes by sitting out of range, shooting easy targets, undoing the good work done by everyone else and then feeling proud of yourself?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,041
# 2029
04-23-2013, 12:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deokkent View Post
I happened to be parsing one CSE pug, the team blew up one cube after another (RML). I was doing ~9k dps (guarding kang) and everyone else were under 3k dps. Missed the optional by a couple of seconds. I'm not the best pilot out there, and I definitely fit the description of half decent but this goes to show that RML works and just needs more dps (at least 5k for each teammate?) to make it happen.

I still prefer mrrmll for CSE though, it's gotta be the best tactic out there (less spawns of raptors).



It's kind of like the one on stowiki.
stowiki needs an update

also, you cant parse others on kang duty reliably (unless you camp the kang). did you destroy probes in middle and left?
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10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,562
# 2030
04-23-2013, 03:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferdzso0 View Post
a half decent player (5-6k dps) can defend against bops and raptors (with a hint of cc you dont even need help on the first spawns), while the rest do rml (it will be slow, if those have crap dps, but that is doable, and not hard)

also I feel old for knowing that ancient tactic you are talking about. that is already proven to be inferior to mrrmll even on bad teams (and technically mrrmll is for bad teams)
Observation in PUG says otherwise-most of the time, the "DPSiest" ships will be working probes/cubes, leaving some sad-sack who's either carrying lots of injuries, or running a beam cruiser, to try and cover the Kang. (and the DPS guys are sending ME tells because I keep breaking off to bail him out...blech.)

Notably this happens far less often with mostly-Klink teams, and hells yes, MRRMLL works well-but it's EASIER to get people to use the 'old system' than it is to explain (esp. to shake-n'-bake Admirals) MRRMLL and what it means-esp. when some High-DPS in an Escort kicks the timer and goes off to try and zipper it RML without a word-which usually fails the mission in about 2-5 minutes because the new guys who've only done Cure Nerf usually follow this guy's lead, and ignore one or more of the approach avenues.

RML ONLY WORKS WITH AN EXPERIENCED TEAM, one that's in good condition (no injuries on anybody) running the right gear, at the right power settings, with the right Bridge officers and Duty officers.

MOST of the PUG players don't have that, and probably WON'T have it until they've spent a few weeks refining their builds, and learning in repeated mission-fails what NOT to do, carry, or use.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."
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